Thickness finishing smalll slabs

Woodshop
#1

I have some small slabs cut from a branch around 5-1/2" in diameter. Bark is still attached, and there is a mild desire to retain it. My wife wants to use them as bases for some small stands. They are currently 3/4" ~ 1" thick at their thinnest, and the faces are not very parallel. I’d like the end items to have parallel faces and not less than 1/2" thick.

  • How dry do they need to be to use the belt or drum sander on? Right now I’m guessing they are 15~20%, but I think the shop has a moisture meter IIRC.
  • These are way too small to use the planer on even when they get to be dry enough. Any suggestions how to get the surfaces relatively parallel? It looks like the drum sander might be a candidate as it specifies min length of 2-3/8".
#2

Just FYI, drum sander is currently inop. Not sure of there is an ETA or not.

To clarify, there is no moisture minimum requirement to pass stock through the drum sander. But that said, stock that is not pretty close to ambient RH runs risk of warping. 15-20% sounds close to me, but I’d still try and get it below 10%.

Without seeing it is hard to tell, but you may be able to get one pretty flat side on with a bandsaw operation with a sled. If so that would be a good start.

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#3

If the drum sander were operable … could he put his slices on a carrier board using double-sided turners tape?

I know that’s not robust enough for the planer but I do the DS tape thing on my thickness sander at home all the time.

#4

I’d think so. Also, depending on shape/size, might/could use edge sander to get to first mostly flat side. But double side tape, or alternatively hot glue, on a piece of MDF would work well, I think.

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#5

The drum sander is really, really bad at bulk material removal. The guideline I was given was 1-2 thousandths of an inch per pass. Taking too much material off at once is the most likely cause of a lot of the failures it’s had.

I’m not sure if the size is an issue, but this sounds like the kind of thing the slab mill was acquired for.

#6

The only machines in the woodshop proper that allow machining material with bark are the bandsaws and lathes.

@got_tools
Will slab mill accomplish this without the cutter knocking the bark off?

#7

Bandsaw against a fence will accomplish what I need. I can use my beltsander for finishing.

Thanks all.

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#8

The rule concerning bark on Woodshop Committee wiki (https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Category:Wood_Shop#Banned_Materials) currently states “No bark on any machine with blades.” This would seem to include bandsaws, and not include sanding equipment. So it’s confusing…are we still considering the Wiki to be the final source of rules, information, and etc.?

#9

We are working through this maze of rules. It has been difficult to correct unsafe behavior at times because of this issue. Our goal to simplify and clarify things as we move forward. Please keep an eye out for conflicts, we appreciate it.

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#10

So I’m back to square one. Is there a way I can safely get parallel surfaces on these using wood shop tools within the limits of the rules and reason?

It sorta looks like this is a job for the slab mill, but that violates the blades rule. I know I’ve seen it used for woods slabs with bark, but that doesn’t mean those were legit examples. I’m also concerned that these are too small to hold down reliably on it.

#11

Woodshop proper is through those double doors, outside of it is a different area, not called the Woodshop. It is the Annex and workshop/flex area. The rules have become convoluted because what most people would understand as the rule, we have transient members that that seems to discover work arounds. We then have to add edge case rules, then more edge case rules. Before you know it, we have this mess of rules that then needs to be pruned.

I am asking the question below to help clarify things for new members.

What has been written on this thread so far has lead you to believe the slab mill can’t be used to do this job, or is inside of the Woodshop?

So everyone is on the same page, common sense is somehow void for many members, or they decide do to use our very nice equipment in ways they dare not use their own saws at home to do. Let that sink in, they probably own a worn-out $100 saw at home with a $20 blade, but in order not to damage it(they respect their saw), they will happily destroy our $1800 saw with a $200 blade. Why do we have all of these crazy rules? Well, crap like this.

Look, its is green wood(wet), has bark, with little common sense behind the member making the cut. The user was astonished that this happened. The wood has closed up around the blade and won’t come off.

Anyway, this is type of abuse that drives the volumes of rules.

@got_tools can chime in on the slab mill for this project. I expect your biggest issue is the cutter spinning at 12,000 RPM hitting the bark and knocking it off.

#12

Inquire about the Slab Mill training and Rules and gather information from the team that manages it prior to writing it off.

#13

Maybe someone disturbed a frustrated Woodshop Chair’s nap?

Woodshop Chair
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#14

Where is it written that Woodshop rules stop at the double doors? I assumed (conservatively though apparently incorrectly) that tools for woodworking were generally under the purview of the Woodshop Comittee and that those rules would apply.

And nothing in this thread has caused me believe the slab mill can’t be used, but common sense and an understanding of the physics of work holding forces leaves me concerned. It’s not paranoia to know that spinning metal blades are out to kill you.

And how does one do this other than asking on Talk? @team_slab_mill doesn’t seem to exist. There is nothing Wiki or Source searches reveal on searching combinations of “slab” and “mill”. It doesn’t appear in https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Tools or in any sig I can find. This is an absolutely correct answer almost devoid of helpful content.

I’ve not noticed slab mill training available since I joined at the beginning of the year. It might have been offered, and I might have missed it. I’ve seen the slab mill being used. Not since I started this project, though.

The fact that the information available is sparse and self-conflicting is precisely why I asked the question that started this thread. Like most things internet, it has devolved into a discussion over what rules might apply, with a dose of light and unhelpful snark.

For the record, I used my saw to cut these after carefully making sure no significant debris was present. The problem is that my small saw is too small to cut them all the way through, so I had to take two cuts. That is why they have an irregular surface…

#15

Evidently you are a smart man, but if you are confused regarding the rules, the average bear doesn’t have a chance.

This is why we are revamping everything in Woodshop. It is currently very confusing and aggravating. But threads like this one are beneficial. They help clarify the fog and sometimes help discover usable solutions.

For everyone, if you have questions, make sure you ask the involved membership for that area. We have a lot of members that want to be helpful, but in reality, are just as clueless and the person they are trying to help.

There is so much tribal knowledge and tribal culture that a new member (< 2 years?) will trip between issues on a weekly basis. Every DMS Atelier has unique rules and cultures. It does take awhile to sort through it all. Some areas are much more pedantic than others. Some say just get it done, while others want to jaw it to death before doing anything, Since we have hundreds of new members annually, it is a chore to train all of them.

Just ask for the local SME when you have a question. They are pretty easy to find in a given area.

For all new members (< 2years), please don’t assume anything. Because we all know how that word diagrams.

#16

The wiki is stale.
Source has been getting the updates.

https://source.dallasmakerspace.org/display/WOOD/Woodshop+Rules

Fun fun

Source vs Wiki content and links
#17

OZ - the slab mill is a woodshop tool it falls under the woodshop rules… I just put two classes up for next Saturday… they should be visible on the events calendar by Monday… class times 9 am and 1pm.

Bark must me removed. The sand and debris that it traps is damaging to the carbides…

I don’t understand what you are making… here why you should remove the bark…

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This log chair is close to 40 years old and made out of Aspen… with the bark on…
the patterns on the bark is cool even before finish is applied… if you’re making furniture and you want it to last. Your wood should be dried 6 to 8 precent or at equilibrium.

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The above table was at 14ish percent… not my work! But this is one of the thing the can happen when you don’t use dried wood…

wood that has bark will dry at different rates. The bark drys first and can lock moisture in creating an environment for fungus to grow… did someone say or think spalted…
or later on the wood expands and cause the bark to brake and pull away from the wood… see chair…

bark also provides a home for sand, rocks, ( which is bad for the carbides in the tools) bugs and fungus. (Stop me if you’ve heard this before… )

As for the drum sander parts are on order.

If the crap trapped in the bark will damage damages carbides. Surely the sand paper is no match for wet wood and bark. The drum sander will heat the moisture up and it becomes steam… water, paper, glue….

Back to the bandsaw - your logs need to be fixtured or held securely and properly. The last two times the band saw has gone down, which resulted in a lot of damage to the laguna. Thankfully the members were not hurt ! The damaged was caused because the members were not holding the material correctly or securely.

#18

This was my assumption, but the Woodshop Chair strongly implies that is not so.

Regardless, I still assume the same rules apply.

There is, however, a lot of evidence that this is not the case. There a are a number of projects in the area with bark intact. That does not mean they are following the rules.

More to the point though is that is not an option for this project. Bark is a feature I need to figure out how to accommodate. The whole point of the OP was to find out how to accommodate it reasonably.

This is certainly true. Silicon dioxide and other rocks are at least marginally harder than most carbides and so will win any disagreement.

as the OP says

So, not furniture in the classic sense.

Not furniture, which for most woods I’d expect to be under 5%. I’d like to rough it out a little more before I do a final drying. Hence the OP asked:

Because I’d like to:

Which is why I asked

I’m still of the opinion that this is a job for abrasives rather than blades. I just need to figure out which abrasive and where to use them. Most abrasives are fine with non-cendensing relative humidity, but wet wood tends to be sappy. This does not feel damp to the touch, which is why I scored it as 15-20% It also generated relatively dry sawdust when cut. No clumping or sticking.

The only real potential issues I see are:

  • debris from the bark in dust collection and machinery. Don’t want to clog anything up.
  • workholding - still an answer requiring thought depending on which machine I choose as the object of my affection for the actual work.

.

#19

I may have to retract my assumption about your smarts… Exactly were did you derive this from?

Strongly - really?

I think I said that I wasn’t sure and to ask the team that ran the machine. Maybe you might have wanted to ask who is on the team, instead of blindly trying to message a nonexistent group.

Slab Mill Training listed on the calendar. This doesn’t include all of the training classes held in between when various members asked for it. Please be careful assuming things aren’t happening just because you aren’t aware of them. Case in point, most of the auto lift training is off the books as is a lot of the CNC plasma training.

Official classes were held by @got_tools & @rjsbike57 - both of these members have also held numerous ad-hoc classes when asked by members. The demand tapered off. As I am sure you must realize, it isn’t fun when you no students show up for classes that are out of demand.

November 2022
9 scheduled classes were held
December 2022
7th. 13th
January 2023
5th, 10th, 21st, 28th
February 2023
Held with individual members as requested
March 2023
25th / AM & PM

Please be aware that there is a tremendous amount of training that happens off of the books, in all committee areas. When new training classes are being developed, they are usually first offered to those members that volunteer huge amounts of person time so everyone else can just show up and have fun. I have little at this point, you have a lot to learn before you truly understand ho DMS works. Since this isn’t a rental tool barn, It takes time to learn the ropes. It isn’t smart to be cute or act snitty along the way. And yes, you have been.

This is all I have say on this matter.

#20

To use the slab mill the bark must me removed… the bark can become dislodge fly across work area… this is why it needs to be removed.

the wood needs to be 6 to 8%… if you’re making furniture and you want to last…

if you’re turning and using green wood then you need to ask the wood turners.

The only tool you can cut bark on in the woodshop is the big laguna bandsaw . All over tools the bark must be removed…

More than likely you will need to built a jig/sled for the band saw to cut your Material…

I’ll be at the space this Monday