Better idea.
Lets all respect each other. Besides a previous BoD dealt with similar in
the past when people started firearm maintenance and reloading at the
space…
In short their decision was to say “be excellent, and respect your peers.”
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I thought we already had rules to cover this kind of behavior…
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What does concern me is the variety of responses I’ve gotten to the open carry picture. It varies from your post, which is reasonable, to essentially ‘yeah, what… you’re going to have a gun and not have it ready?’
People are clearly not in agreement on what respectful behavior with a gun looks like.
Actually, the law being quoted is about criminal trespass, not the carry itself. 30.06 says that if the proper sign is posted, and a licensee carries a concealed weapon onto the premises, then he is guilty of criminal trespass. 30.07 (the new law) says that a sign can be posted that makes entry by a licensee who is openly carrying a firearm guilty of criminal trespass.
So yes, it is very likely that if someone who is a licensee had a firearm sitting on a table (even a disassembled one that was being worked on), that person would likely be guilty of criminal trespass because the Space decided to post signs that criminalized it.
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The exact same argument applies to government. Ultima ratione regum, don’t you know.
I’m much more concerned about having government in the Space than guns.
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If people behaved in real life as they do on the internet, there would be daily fist fights at DMS and, well… everywhere else.
You would do well to ignore the big talk. Considering the number of gun owners frequenting the space, if there was going to be a regular problem, it would have already happened. The open carry law really has no effect on people’s ability to act foolish with a gun at DMS so there’s not going to be a big change in behavior after January 1st.
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I’m quite certain that we do but maybe we need to add the word “firearms” if it covers the space against nonsense resulting from not having a written rule.
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As a native Mississippian, I can tell you that the concern is MASSIVELY unfounded. Most states, Mississippi included, have allowed open carry for decades and people simply choose not to carry their firearms openly. The overwhelming majority of the permit-holders in Texas will not openly carry their firearms. I have my permit and I will not be open carrying anywhere.
A little bit of context might help, too. The purpose of this law was not to have everyone walking around with a Peacemaker on their hip like Wyatt Earp. Before this law, CHL holders in Texas had a very real danger – their license required their weapon to be concealed, and zealous cops and prosecutors took that to mean that any time it could be seen – even if it was just that your shirt rode up a little and exposed any part of that firearm, then you could be arrested for open carrying a handgun, which was still illegal (and still is illegal if you do not have a license.)
The legislature dealt with this problem (and they seem to have identified the overly zealous cops and prosecutors as the problem) by simply making Concealed Handgun Licenses into Handgun Licenses, and taking out the concealed part.
The problem that I see is that far, far too much of this debate is centered on people making decisions based on laws they don’t understand, based on context they don’t have, and then completely borking the implementation. How borked? Well, I don’t have CHL. Since DMS is a private club, I could walk in with a gun in a bag, strap it on, and that would be likely be perfectly legal. However, if there is a 30.07 sign posted, if a licensee did that, he could be arrested for criminal trespass.
Because this is being argued on emotion and irrational fears (and I mean irrational literally, as in, not based in reason and rational cause-and-effect), you end up with ass-backwards results where the person who does have training and background checks (the licensee) can’t do things that any asshat with the money and no convictions can do freely.
And I still stand by my assertion – things like this are not about getting rid of guns. They are about getting rid of people who like guns. It’s bigotry, straight up, and I’ll shake the dust of this place off my shoes in a heartbeat if any of this gets anywhere – and I’m damned close just because it wasn’t stomped down by the leadership of this group at the outset.
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I would like a rule stating that you cannot have uncased or unholstered weapons in common areas (as opposed to work areas), that weapons must be fully unloaded if they are taken out for maintenance or otherwise, and any gun that is near full assembly be supervised at all times.
You’re right. Things like this are not about getting rid of guns. It’s about setting some standards on reasonable, respectful, and safe usage of the space.
If you are such a gun aficionado that you can’t keep your gun put away in public, then I’d rather not run into you, ever.
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I’m not being a smartass but those things are already happening exactly that way at the space.
If you want to make it an official rule just for the sake of writing it down, by all means, feel free. It doesn’t affect the current behavior but if the space needs to have it in writing for it to be enforceable, so be it.
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I built my AR and I think its a very cool hobby, i dont think this about keeping guns out of the space and or the people who like them. My thinking is would you streak nude through the entire space or would you come to the space with clothes on. The point is nobody wants to see your gun, keep the thing hidden till you get back home.
If you bring one for class, to teach cool, you dont have to walk in with it like your about to go to war. Take it to the class room and do what you need to do. I’m not sure what the space’s rules are about gun cleaning etc, but if you have your weapon in a corner broken down out of clear site of the rest of the space no harm done, clean it, the pack it back up.
Those that feel the need to pack heat for protection, keep it concealed. Otherwise your creating an un-needed tension, everyone is suppose to have a helpful perception. You watch how many people dont approach you for anything if your in John Wayne character. So it’s a choice, if you just want to be left the hell alone, open carry, and your wish will be granted.
Might as well make a gun committee cause those will be the only folks that can talk amongst themselves comfortably.
I would just hate to see it get out of control where folks just dont give a damn, the space could easily say ok F-it, shut it down, find somewhere else to open carry sell this warehouse and be done with it…Then we all lose right?
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I absolutely believe it. The members are overwhelmingly cool people that I have enjoyed getting to know over the last couple of years.
I would like to see good practice codified so that there’s no ambiguity when some wacko is wandering around with a (perfectly legal) rifle in his hand. There will be no argument of whether he was exercising his rights or being not excellent.
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I’m really finding it weird that the anti-open carry members of this thread and the previous thread act as though; DMS is full of members with guns threatening them. I haven’t personally ever seen this happen at DMS in my nearly 5 years of membership.
What I have seen is members carrying guns concealed with a CHL almost fully unknown by the majority of the group. Members teaching classes on assembling and gun safety. Members teaching how to reload ammunition to a level that I would feel safer carrying their reloaded round over the box ammo I buy at the store. Member manufacturing firearms safely. Group trips to gun ranges and private land where DMS members where more concerned about safety than the people or group hosting the event. The worst I’ve seen is people verbally excited to see an unloaded gun they haven’t seen or held before, which isn’t even a bad thing.
Where the ass-hatters come out is in reaction to this. Hearing the argument that I’m so scared of a classroom full of unloaded ARs being put together is what I’m talking about. Or, We need to involve the board to stop safe reloading at the space because “bullets!” Or, I saw a gun and instantly ran out and am now cancelling my membership, get rid of the guns. Because these items can be part of the equation to a death doesn’t mean that they will always end in that way. In all honesty there are much more likely causes of death at DMS that we should spend time discussing over this. Example: We currently have no way of actually stopping member from using tools dangerously that they haven’t been trained on. This did actually come up in the discussion with insurance agencies.
Please anti-gun members of DMS keep the politics out of the group. If a member actually intends to intimidate by threatening you with their gun in real or in suggestion I see issue with that and I will personally step in if I hear anything about it. But, the fear mongering and irrational want to punish member that own, carry, work on, clean, reload for or just possess guns needs to stop.
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Nick, I agree but I will also add that the concerns of some people have been belittled/ridiculed in this discussion and that’s not kosher either.
This is a polarizing issue, for sure, but it’s not something that can’t be discussed by hearing out all sides. If I were on the other side of this discussion and my concerns were being dismissed by the majority, I wouldn’t feel that we were being excellent to each other.
The goal of the space is to respect the opinion of others, even if we disagree. I would hate for this issue to cause divisiveness among the members because I, for one, would be delighted if a member not familiar with guns approached me and asked questions. I have instructed many new shooters and a little familiarization works wonders for a person’s viewpoint.
An “us vs them” atmosphere doesn’t benefit anyone (not that that’s what you were suggesting, I’m just making the general point).
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Just wanted to be clear, that I didnt mean it in this way. Seeing a gun is one thing, watching someone work on a project with a loaded pistol sitting on the table or next to them cause its getting in the way, is what i’m talking about. To your point, i’m referring to carelessness, and some are super careful with tools firearms etc, some folks just aren’t and you open it up for some, there is that small percentage that will take advantage of that right, and nobody will be able to say nothing to them. You said yourself man, your a big guy, now tag on a gun next to that stereotype and lay it out in the open while your working, and see how many noobs that you dont know won’t give you the time of day…
Same for me, people ask me questions all the time about the CNC, same argument, black guy + 9mm sitting next to him, who the hell is gonna ask me anything?
So i get what your saying man, and i am not anti-gun, just trying to keep the space as sociable as possible so the learning capacity doesn’t deteriorate.
Also, if there is a room full of AR’s being put together, please tell me, i want to go and par-take in the festivities.
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[Edit: This was the wrong quote, and the N-word can be very offensive. Let’s try that again.]
Uh huh, saving face are we?
Might wanna watch your you-tubes in their entirety before you post sir.
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Just trying to inject a little levity into the discussion. At no time has anyone brought skin pigmentation into this thread until your post.
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It was a figure of speech to make a point, did you see me post a youtube, when nick referred to himself as big. It’s a reference to a stereotype. I didn’t think the word Black, would raise an eyebrow, however i was mistaken.
Figured we could all discuss this like adults w/o racial levity.
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I don’t believe there will be anyone sitting down with Mr.9mm loaded next to them on the desk. I believe that if anything will be possibly someone unloaded working on something or getting measurements. If it’s loaded it’s in a holster. For a CHL holder, they are not your normal gun owners. They are not likely to do anything stupid just because of what’s all on the line. I personally didn’t wait 60+ days to get my CHL just to do something stupid to get it taken away. Anything above a class C misdemeanor will get it taken away for years, we will then loose our right to protect ourselves as we can with a CHL.
Be Exellent.
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