Poll on Open Carry

[kbraby]

Remember,
Legally, concealed or othewise, drawing a weapon without due cause, along the lines of defense of self or others is a criminal act. There may be exceptions for training or similar, but they also apply equally to concealed and open.

The people who may open carry where not prohibited are exactly the same as those who can concealed carry. The conditions where they can legally remove it from the holster are identical, concealed or open. Everyone who has a CHL/LTC as part of the class is reminded that they are fully liable for every bullet they shoot. Even if they are justified in shooting someone who is stabbing their wife, if they miss, and injure or kill someone else, they are fully liable criminally and civilly for the injury or murder of the innocent bystander.

I’m really not understanding why the simple status of visible or not matters so much, or what exactly else they think changes.

[DanielHooper]

Here is an example of something that I would like to be clearly and unequivocally against the rules:

The fellow on the right is about one second away from firing position. But this is legal open carry in Texas. I would consider a person carrying like this in an non-active threat situation to be an asshat, and I would like the guidelines to reflect that.

[kbraby]

And every scenario with long guns is completely outside the scope of 30.07 and open carry, which is specific to handguns.

[bscharff]

Again, 30.07 is no longer on the table. We’re making policies, so we can custom-write rules for DMS, within reason.

[mblatz]

Anyone with any weapon on them, even a knife in a pocket, is virtually always ~1 second from a firing (or stabbing/slicing or whatever) position. If it were to take any longer than that, there wouldn’t be much point, would there…?

[wandrson]

That has been legal open carry for years and yet had.never been a problem at DMS. The new law only applies to holstered hand guns. A very different thing.

[zmetzing]

reasonable gun safety rules

Rule #1: Don’t point a gun, unloaded or otherwise, at anything you do not intend to kill/destroy.

All other rules, see Rule #1

[wandrson]

How do you not brandish a rifle? You certainly can’t put it in its ‘holster’ if you’re carrying it. Then the only distinction is pointing it at someone or not pointing it at someone. That is not enough for me.

The new open carry law only applies to hand guns. Long guns have legally been open carry in Texas since long before DMS existed. Unless you can provide some indication of how, as far as I know there has never been an issue with a rifle at the space.

Your concerns about mishandling and the associated risk apply to both open and concealed carry of handguns. The concealed carry already exists at the space, again with no problems, so are you suggesting that we need to apply rules to that as well? After all, there haven’t been any of the problems your concerned about, and the pool of people who can open carry are the same so I don’t see any reason to believe there will be any problems.

[DanielHooper]

The concealed carry already exists at the space, again with no problems, so are you suggesting that we need to apply rules to that as well? After all, there haven’t been any of the problems your concerned about, and the pool of people who can open carry are the same so I don’t see any reason to believe there will be any problems.

My contention is that there is very rarely, if ever any need for a gun to be ‘out’ at the space. This thread has my alert up because it seems that people are coming out from all over the place to assert their right to have a gun whereever and whenever doing whatever. I don’t believe that is appropriate.

I don’t see why DMS can’t be ‘gun tolerant’, but I have zero desire to be a member in a ‘gun friendly’ space. This means rules on when and how you can display a gun. Not a free for all. Someone carrying an unloaded rifle in a case to do some gunsmithing is one thing. Someone carrying a rifle down the hall either in-hand or slung over a shoulder is not acceptable in any way whatsoever. If I can’t be any more clear on this, I DO NOT TRUST YOU WITH A GUN OUT. We have what …2000 members? I don’t even know a small fraction of them. How could I trust that? At least holstered it is generally not fire-able. I would like to have some agreement on this before anyone tries to have a gun-show meetup at the space.

[Phillip_Hardwick]

Call the damn cops for one of us carrying a weapon openly when we are liscensed, see uow that holds up.

[merissa]

Man the lack of respect for each other in these posts is disheartening and nowhere near excellent. DMS is better than this and you should be too.

[bscharff]

What? No… you are completely misreading what I’m saying. Try taking a bit more time.
I was replying to Zach’s post where he said that considers DMS liable if he is injured due to his lack of ability to openly carry a handgun.

[rablack97]

Big people walking around the space don’t intimidate me man. Put the two side by side, big man, and little man with a 9mm tell me which is more initimidating.

However none of this back and forth matters, us as humans like to learn the hard way. There is no right or wrong here, guns get banned and something goes down, its oh if we had guns it would of been different. Or just let it happen and the moment somebody accidentally gets shot due to horse play, then its oh if we would have just stuck with the rules.

I dont care what any of you do with your firearms your all grown adults, if i dont like what i see, i go the next room or just pack my stuff and go home, and if it gets too bad, i just cancel my membership, simple as that.

So no need to argue, revenue is gonna be lost regardless over something that i didnt think would even be an issue in this establishment, but i guess guns rule.

I just hope nobody is a hypocrite about the whole thing and that one day you bring your kids and or wife and or girlfriend and somebody is packing a big ass gun in the open and your loved ones are now uncomfortable vouching never to come back. Everybody vouches for that pistol until it affects someone they care about.

Its a damned if you do or don’t…and wayyy too many grey areas…who’s gonna tell Joe Smith he cant bring his 50 cal up here knowing Bill Bailey totes AR and .45 to the space everyday.

Some folks come here to get away from the BS in the outside world, but it looks like we are gonna bring it right into one of the few spaces you think it wouldn’t exist…so is what it is…

[Jeremy]

Since I work on guns more than anyone else I’ve seen at the space, I am going to make a few comments.

I am a licensed manufacturer and gunsmith. While there are limits to what I can legally do at the space under my license, I can do cleaning and gunsmith work which is what I typically do at Makerspace. I am always conscious of people who are uncomfortable around guns and I make every effort to avoid walking around with a completed firearm. My projects get a lot of interest from our gun-owning members and, to my knowledge, I have managed to avoid making anyone uncomfortable.

I understand the discussion and I understand the concern. This discussion is in the same vein as many others being had in Texas preceding this change in the law. As a native Mississippian, I can tell you that the concern is MASSIVELY unfounded. Most states, Mississippi included, have allowed open carry for decades and people simply choose not to carry their firearms openly. The overwhelming majority of the permit-holders in Texas will not openly carry their firearms. I have my permit and I will not be open carrying anywhere.

In my experience, those of us who bring guns to the space for any reason are mindful of other members and do our best to avoid being seen with them. If there are existing complaints, I would be interested to hear those out.

Lastly, I feel like this is yet another case of trying to solve a problem that doesn’t (and may never) exist. I understand the desire to be proactive but my recommendation would be to wait and see if there is even a need to be concerned with this new law. I’m going to guess that absolutely nothing will change at the space after open carry is allowed.

[Jeremy]

I am as pro gun as any person you will find and If I saw someone walking around the space like the person pictured, I would advise them to be more mindful of how they appear to the uninitiated. If someone at DMS appears ready to fire, that would make ME nervous. The folks you have picture are likely part of the “Open Carry Texas” crowd or a similar group who were out to make a political statement and they were largely chastised by gun owners.

To my knowledge, the gun owners at DMS are smart enough to not scare the hell out of people.

We are more than capable of self-governing without a “rule” on the books. Anyone who is absent-minded enough to walk around the space with a rifle “at the ready” is too absent-minded to know that a rule exists so all this talk about new rules is rather silly.

As I said before, attempting to solve problems that haven’t yet presented themselves is an ever-losing battle. Regardless what the law in Texas states, gun owners aren’t a bunch of morons out to intimidate and frighten people.

[Adam_Oas]

The reason for a rule is so that issues of asshattery can be dealt with immediately, with consequences for inaction. If there is no rule in place, then the “open carry nutjobs” (that honestly won’t bother with DMS) who we may want to tone down will simply ask why we’re oppressing them without any rule being in place. I think we’re generally all in agreement that some simple ground rules can be stated so that in the unlikely event of asshattery takes place, it’s an easy thing to show them the rules, and if they don’t comply, then to show them the door.

We are more than capable of self-governing without a “rule” on the books. Anyone who is absent-minded enough to walk around the space with a rifle “at the ready” is too absent-minded to know that a rule exists so all this talk about new rules is rather silly.

[lukeiamyourfather]

[Jeremy]

Understood, then I’d suggest that the rule be worded similar to any other safety concern.

Basically: “Anyone acting in an unsafe, obstructive, or aggressive manner with any tool or object including, but not limited to: firearms, edged weapons, fire, lasers, etc. is subject to immediate disciplinary action including permanent banishment from the premises and/or being turned over to the proper authorities.”

I’m no rule writer, but I think that would cover it without singling anyone out or allowing personal politics to influence DMS.

I’ll also say that I will be the first to address any asshatery involving firearms at the space. If I see someone being a dipshit with a gun, I’ll definitely say something because I would be the biggest loser if DMS suddenly adopted a no-gun policy.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, lol. We need to keep this on topic and cut out the political debate. Regardless how people personally feel about firearms, it’s not that hard to discuss this particular issue so that all parties are satisfied.

[thetazzbot]

Im number 100! Lock this thread lol