Poll on Open Carry

DMS General
#1

CONCEALED CARRY IS STILL ALLOWED AND NO ONE IS TRYING TO BAN IT

  • Open Carry should be permitted at DMS unconditionally
  • Open Carry should NOT be permitted at DMS AT ALL

0 voters

NOTE: For this poll’s purpose, please assume that cleaning a firearm would NOT be permitted if Open Carry is not permitted.

Just looking to see how many people feel each way. I realize that this is a black/white poll, so please vote whichever one you feel closer to. I’ll make more specific polls later to narrow down the popular opinion.

SECOND POLL

#2

Is there any reason, beyond bias, that the two choices couldn’t have been 1) Open carry should be permitted and 2) Open carry should be banned.

#3

Because I can only edit the poll within 5 minutes of posting it and your suggestion came in at the 5-minute mark :frowning: (BTW, not being sarcastic)

Also, I want it to be clear that this is a black and white poll. Levels of grey will be added in additional polls.

#4

So this is more than a poll on open carry. You are making it a poll on ANY firearms at DMS.

Russell Ward

1 Like
#5

What? No… Both options, along with the title, literally say “Open Carry.” This is black and white on OPEN CARRY.

Let me be 100% clear: No one here is trying to ban concealed carry.

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#6

Would it have not been more reasonable to ask the poll ‘does dallas maker space need to add new bylaws/rules in response to the change in texas open carry laws?’ I feel like the wording of the poll makes it seem as though carrying a concealed weapon is not already allowed. Im still totally at a loss as to what it is that banning open carry handguns is going to accomplish?

1 Like
#7

Both choices as written are reduction to the absurd.

The second one implies that we shouldn’t allow law enforcement into the building with their visibly holstered weapon. The first one is equally absurd in that it implies we would take no action against criminal behavior by someone open carrying.

There is still and always will be a distinction between open carry and brandishing a weapon.

#8

You both are being absurd. You’re implying that DMS can make rules that are superior to state laws.
Just vote “Open Carry should be permitted” and be done with it.
The majority vote here determines the next logical question (such as “Should members [that are not comfortable with open carry] be allowed to request people put away their firearms?”).

Just answer it closest to your own opinion and stop trying to make technicalities. That is not my intent here.

3 Likes
#9

Can we still get some clarification on the purpose of this proposed rule and what its meant to accomplish? One reason given was for safety… how is an unconcealed gun more safe than a concealed one? Another reason i saw was ‘to not scare new or potential members’… are you imagining some wild west show type of environment? Would armed security or armed off duty cops be any more or less ‘scary’? On that note, if this rule carries are we now unable to hire armed security if needed?

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#10

There is no proposed rule!!! This is a poll and has no bearing on anything other than for people to see.

#11

Phillip, this poll isn’t binding. As someone who participated tonight I can say there was a spirited discussion in the board meeting and updates will be in the minutes. I think the next step is two members with opposing views will be working on a policy that hopefully strikes a balance between the concerns that were voiced.

I find this poll difficult; I’m one of those persons in the center of these two camps.

1 Like
#12

I for one want to thank @bscharff for giving people an avenue to express their feelings on this topic without throwing themselves to the wolves by entering a discussion like this and get overwhelmed with sensationalized, irrational, responses.

I hope the board listens to all members who have input on this topic and a decision is made that is best for the organization… whatever that may be.

Now I’ll show myself out and resume lurker status.

4 Likes
#13

As do I. But this is an exercise that we may need to go through.

In the spirit of Brooks’ stated intent to try to drill down on a more granular position I’ll cast my vote.

1 Like
#14

Or, it can be looked at as a binary search.

When polling humans, a forced choice (either this or that) is the only thing that works. I suspect, after a reasonable time, @bscharff will follow-up with a refinement of this poll. Iterating until, hopefully, a reasonable compromise is reached.

The simple fact is that there are people who are uncomfortable around firearms. Be excellent to one another means we should, at the very least, attempt to accommodate our fellow makers.

2 Likes
#15

Or, put another way, I trust myself to handle a firearm safely, but not many others.

Also, as someone who grew up to respect guns and know how and when to use them, people having them out in a non-gun context (hunting, shooting range) makes me pretty uncomfortable.

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#16

I would vote for Open carry, but there should be conditions in Place.

#17

I find the open firearm discussion interesting. These are just my opinions, people are gonna do what they want regardless.

I own firearms myself, but for some reason I don’t see a need to show what I have at the space. Lets take a look at why alot people come in to the space, its therapeutic, a get away, a decompression chamber. Some folks may suffer from anxiety and come to the space to relaxe the brain.

To see someone openly carrying a firearm regardless of the intent is going to immediately take away that persons joy of coming to the space. I mean some folks are flat out visual, you piss somebody off and they have that firearm in view, something bad could transpire, vs… if its concealed, you might think about what your gonna do a little more.

Its funny we argue more about these machines and we can or cannot do to preserve them, and based on the machine use we argue about what we can or cannot do with them. Cant cut plastics or metal, not safe yet, cant laser certain materials releases gases, too unsafe. Cant use spray paint in the building too unsafe. So oddly enough those rules set by DMS are followed.

Yet when we talk guns, there seems to be no regard for the perception and or havok it could cause.

There is always a time and place for everything, at a gun range sure open carry, or whever guns are common denominator. At that point everyone is on the same page. You wouldnt take a gun to a bowling alley and be that one guy or girl that everyone is like what in the world.

I just hope everyone takes into considerations of all of the pros and cons, its one of those just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

There are kids around the space and there are future members being shown around, what do you think that will portray walking around a corner and a member has an AR-15 strapped around his back.

So be mindful, the handful that want to open carry, yeah you have the right to do so, buttttt, you risk having members drop off, and or new members not even bother to sign up, then this place will have to be turned into a gun range, cause thats all that gonna be in here is members with guns.

Pack your heat if you feel a need to, but hide it, lets try to keep the space therapeutic, and not a place of tension and worry.

6 Likes
#18

I grew up in a household that abhorred guns and ‘gun culture’. As a child I was not even allowed to own a toy gun. My only experience with firearms was the shoot-them-ups on the boob tube. When I started working I spent some time in Arizona, which has allowed open carry for at least the last few decades.

It was shocking to go into a restaurant and see multiple individuals with a side arm that weren’t wearing uniforms. I will freely admit that this made me uncomfortable. What made me even more uncomfortable was being on the receiving end of multiple irate citizens when I was explaining what the future road system would look like for their area. These public involvement meetings are always (or nearly so) loud and confrontational. In Arizona, there were always at least a few folks with a gun on their hip during these sessions. I expressed my concern to our client, a public agency in the area, and was told that I didn’t need to worry about it, the most I would receive was what I had come to expect in other parts of the country–getting shouted at and told I was evil… :smile:

After a while it sunk in that these folks were not going to call me out for a duel, or shoot me if they didn’t agree with me (which they most assuredly didn’t). In other words my fears and concerns were based not on reality, but my emotional responses. Emotional responses driven by a lack of experience and knowledge. The same arguments get pulled off the shelf every time a state has passed a more permissive gun law. A couple of decades ago when Texas was considering CHL, we heard frequent use of the argument that “something bad could transpire”, that folks would have duels over road rage. The fact is that such behavior is as rare now as it was before the passage of the new laws.

There is a real problem with letting one groups perceived problems drive our rule making. Since these problems only exist as perceptions in the mind of our members; where do we draw the line? For instance if we have members (and we almost certainly do) who are made uncomfortable by the presence of Muslims, homosexuals, children, Republicans, Lawyers (my personal one :smile:), etc… do we need rules to make these people more comfortable?

I say no, because we already have a rule that applies, and it applies to both sides in every case. “Be excellent” to one another. That translates to is your being a Republican bothers somebody, then trry to avoid them. And if your the one being bothered, you to have an obligation to ‘live and let live’. Just because Republican’s make you uncomfortable, doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t allow them in the space.

Yes that last example is a bit comical, but it illustrates the problem. Do we really want to be passing rules to accommodate members concerns based not upon objective problems (which haven’t occurred yet) but rather upon emotionally driven prejudices and perceptions?

Finally, if we had a member or group of members who chose to have one of these televised ‘gun rights’ events at the space, we already have a means of dealing with that. We ask them to leave. We don’t need a rule or policy on guns to address it. In much the same way that we have asked members who have caused conflicts/drama in the past to 'go home and cool off" for a while we can do so the first time here as well. Only IF this becomes a regular pattern should we be considering a rule to deal with it at all.

12 Likes
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#19

FYI - I think you can already openly carry ‘an AR-15 on your back’ as you say with current TX gun laws. You have been able to carry long guns openly in TX for some time. I have yet to see that happen at DMS even though it has been legal to do so.
The new law applies specifically to handguns. It only, to my understanding, allows for a handgun to be carried in a waist or shoulder holster.

GUN FREE zones get people killed. They are not safe.

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#20

Can you cite your sources, please?

1 Like