That’s exactly where it seems like there’s the disconnect though. New tools are bought using money earned from classes. Where is this surplus you’re talking about…and which committees do you think aren’t providing training and in what tools
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I’d already conceded defeat.
Glad you didn’t stick CA with the cost of failing to clear the print queue from the wide-format printer. Following up with such a discrepancy is something a chair might have to do. As I said ages ago, it’s a really big job. Member accountability really helps.
Yeah. That’s not at all accurate. Classes don’t pay for new tools.
The current income/expense budget is a beast, but income from classes is not what is used for tools.
Ah ok so not relevant just a personal attack. I’m flattered…even if slightly sad that’s the best you had. I used to be such a rebel. Le sigh for lost youth. If you were chair you’d know about the incident in question and subsequent resolution/actions taken. But you’re not chair or even active committee so I understand why you’ve got so much of that incident incorrect. I’m sure you can also see how it’s settled and therefore not your business
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They most certainly do.
This statement indicates you aren’t fully knowledgeable of committee finances nor understand Committees use the funds generated by honorariums to buy the equipment they want. Monthly stipends basically cover ongoing consumables and repairs. See my comments above on how Machine Shop spends the $500/mo stipend.
Money generated beyond the stipends is raised by instructors and is how committees raise money to purchase other equipment. Committees often use that money for bigger purchases and will sometimes ask for matching funds from the BoD which wants the committee to have some skin in the purchase. Machine Shop recently spent an additional $2,000 dollars on accessories for the Sherlines. We spent another $500 on items for the Bridgeport and the Engine Lathe. We will be buying additional tools, about $1,000 worth in September to round out more of our capabilities. All these latter purchases were completely out of funds raised internally and are what Machine Shop members voted on to buy. We have five major tools that require training to use, we have been fortunate in that we’ve got a cadre of instructors that allows each machine to average 2.5 ~ 3 classes per month, about 12-15 classes a month, with over half of the instructors giving the entire honorarium to the committee. We have a number of Day Maker classes to support the members that have difficulty making evening classes.
Machine Shop voted that all money generated by the Haas classes are reserved for future Haas maintenance as repairs tend to be expensive. The consumables are paid separately the same as the other tools.
In CA committee meetings a list of all tools wanted are put on a list and the priority is voted on by committee members, these are paid for out of honorariums because the monthly stipend goes for the massive amount of small purchases for supplies too small to be charged for but collectively add up.
Wood Shop teaches a lot of classes - but they have high consumables and repairs and most is used there.
The only major item recently purchased that was fully exclusively by the BoD is for the Vacuum Former, ~ $16.5K with shipping. This is an item that didn’t clearly fall into any existing committee’s sphere (we don’t have a Plastics Committee), but was/is much wanted and replaced a defunct old one. 3D Fab has taken the lead in managing it.
Laser committee has zero funding and is completely self-supporting through materials fees, laser time, and classes taught. They are going to buy two more medium sized lasers from the company we bought the Thunder
Laser from - these will replace the Lasersaur.
I could go through the other committees but the point I believe is made.
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I think she has a point. Another member got stuck with the printing bill for jobs left in the queue.
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It’s off topic and came out of left field.
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Ok, abandoning the new tools idea. Is there disagreement over the idea that a committee has the responsibility to provide enough basic classes to get people qualified within a reasonable amount of time?
There are a LOT of basic classes and since we have learrned that huge classesses
dont work well. I could barely see the darn laser when I took a basics
classs a a couple of years ago, not real usefulm,
Many of these classes are offered multiple times in a single month
Well stated and I agree.
Seems like this thread started because there was concern that new members couldn’t get qualified at minimum levels without extremely long waits. I think woodshop safety, or basics was one that was mentioned a lot.That’s what I’ve been addressing. I may be wrong on any or all of the above. If so, then I have in fact missed the point and will quote the late, great Miss Emily Litella. “Nevermind.”
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The disagreement is whether the committee should be punished for an arbitrary decision about not having enough classes (especially when the wait list isn’t in place and thus cant even be tracked)
It’s a utopian ideal…we will have enough classes to get folks trained at the time and pace of their choosing. But it’s just that. Great in paper but not practically solvable unless we start deleting membership. Instructors are all volunteer like everything else and get paid essentially nothing. You can’t require a volunteer to MAKE demands of the space fit their lives without making it worth their while. Membership is full of talk about paying so it is but when it’s time to fork over the cash they don’t do it. We are a bunch of buddies tinkering in a garage on steroids. You don’t call said buddy to leave work early and bring you a wrench. The wrench doesn’t pay his bills…nor are you going to start paying his mortgage so he can fetch wrenches whenever you want.
She might if even half of that was accurate but it’s not. Neither is your statement. Put the hatchet back in the ground…
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All I know is what is posted in the thread where a member was stuck paying for prints that weren’t theirs. No hatchet here and I wish that more details were available to put the issue to bed. No need to attack me. All I said was that she had a point.
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Then how about clearing it up right here and now? Why the cloak and dagger act of denial and obfuscation?
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I’ll teach you any class you need but it will $1,200 cash. Also will be at my schedule and availability. How bad do you need wood shop basics?
I understand new member frustrations as I remember when we had one contractor grade table saw and before we had 3D printers or our own laser cutter.
But I will give you some “Old Member Frustrations”:
DMS is a community workshop (It’s not about you all the time)
DMS is a collaborative space (It’s not about you all the time)
DMS has the best tools we can currently afford (It’s not about you all the time)
DMS is run by volunteers (It’s not about you all the time)
DMS is a non-profit with no paid staff (It’s not about you all the time)
etc.
etc.
Welcome new member but we have members, not customers. Stop treating our volunteers as your service providers. It’s a community!
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See you have context when DMS was new and young and growing. The new members see only a well fitted large diverse shop environment. Only wanting to get going on projects.
Selling new members is not about building from a $200 Crafstman contractor saw to a SawStop or a commercial CNC wood and metal machining tools. Those are already here!!! It’s about look at all the cool stuff you can use to make. This is a mature phase of DMS. Ths phase requires different processes and procedures, like ‘basic trainings’, etc. In the Golden Age, did you have to hold back until you were cleared?
What you stated is all true, but dynamics are different now and leadership is needed to move DMS to a higher level of cooperation and yes volunteerism.
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Maybe it wasn’t resolved?
Owen, sincerely, please tell me what your personal recommendations are for leadership can do to get more volunteers? I’ve been co-chair of CA, Chair of Machine Shop, and now on BoD. So I’m asking as someone that that has been entrusted with leadership positions you refer to. Caveat before answering: People saying “More Money” is not volunteerism. I’m always asking people to volunteer to teach classes, I even ask people what they could teach when signing them up. By doing that I’m hopefully instilling the concept that you are a MEMBER of an all volunteer organization and NOT A CUSTOMER. If someone tells me the only thing they are really interested in is Wood Shop I’m up front with them that it may be a while before they can get that required training. I recommend they NOT JOIN right then but watch the Calendar, when they see a class opening IMMEDIATELY JOIN and then IMMEDIATELY sign up for that class.
I’m fine with charging for outside instructors to come in and teach expedited classes paid for by the people willing to pay to get expedited classes. That’s a partial solution We are not a Tech Shop, you want super “customer service”: pay the freight. Your dues were designed to support that, they are low because we have the expectation of volunteerism. They will be helping solve the problem: Just like toll roads they’ll be paying for faster service and at the same time reducing backlog demand for others waiting for the class.
Since we’ve moved here three years ago we’ve gone from 300 to a little over 1,600. Approximately a 500% increase. The number of volunteer instructors has NOT gone up anywhere near that ratio otherwise there would be about 30+ instructors for just Wood Basics. There is much more of the customer mentality “Hey, I paid $50 so every thing should be immediately available to me at my convenience. Why aren’t these lazy volunteers teaching more! Can’t they see I’M waiting? Me, Volunteer? Whoa whoa whoa, I paid my $50, besides I’m busy. I want, I want, I want. Why aren’t these volunteers supporting me!”
As someone that teaches different six different Training Required classes (Bridgeport, Engine Lathe, Sherline Mill, Cold Cut Saw and starting next week PlasmaCam and later Sherline Lathe) 5 of the 6 classes are 2.5-3.0 hours plus prep time of about 30-45 minutes. Wood Shop basics requires the same amount of time.
Most of the current instructors are NOT old time Lady Birders, they are Noob Monetary Members 
. The frustration being expressed is all the complaints we’re hearing about what a piss poor inadequate job we’re doing as volunteers teaching the classes we do, which appears to be just slightly more often than Eclipses occur. It gets old.
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