More Money More Instruction

DMS General
#1

There are several under served committees that simply can’t get enough people to teach for the demand that’s there. In my opinion it’s time to rethink how we recruit instructors in these high demand areas (or highly specialized areas). I suspect there are many people willing to pay more for a class if that means they can actually take the class. For example we could hire a contractor to teach wood shop basics every weekday night and charge $50 per student for the class and give half of it to the instructor to make it worth their time to do it regularly. That’s just an example, the details can be worked out and discussed.

Sure, instructors can do this right now if they choose to like sell tickets on Eventbrite but it’s a pain in the ass for both the students and the instructor and not many people do it. Let’s make it easy for instructors to do their job and let’s make it worth their time to do it. If our goal is to educate people we should take another look at that. We can do better than having people quit because they can’t get into classes. This model won’t make sense for everything but I think it makes sense for at least a few things. Feel free to disagree but please be respectful.

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#2

The marketplace has two sides: supply and demand.

We need to work on the demand side of the equation.

Online training will reduce the need for teachers. But online material development has been slow.

The new tool/training matrix will be out soon. That is my greatest hope to relieve the problem. Some committees have over-required on the training. For example, I would not want to use a table saw or a joiner without some supervised hands-on training. But why do I need to take Woodshop Basics just to use the drill press or the scroll saw when those tools are barely covered in the Woodshop Basics class?

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#3

I have had folks ask about a personal Plasmacam class sometimes for $$. I’m new at this and have refused since I don’t know if there are rules. This is a great opportunity to throw out questions.

Can an instructor give a personal class and get someone approved for “training required” equipment? How to do this? Message to @Team_Infrastructure?

Who is an “instructor” that can approve others? I assume it is someone who has taught at least one class on the subject.

Is it ok to accept $$. If offered, I might take $10 to cover diesel and a burger but I will not burden others more than a minimal amount. Others might want to charge more… or much more.

Why not ask, can someone offer their services for a fee on Talk? I will not be doing it but someone might want to post, “Personal training and approval on XYZ equipment for only $100.” Depending on experience of instructor and hours of training required, that might be reasonable.

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#4

I think that will help for sure for stuff that can be learned online (which isn’t everything). As we grow this problem will only intensify. We’re already “behind” some and we can do something before it gets worse. Our reputation is fairly good in the community right now and I’d hate for that to turn into “the place where you can’t get into any classes” which is where I think it’s heading.

As far as I know there are no rules against doing this right now. It’s up to the chairperson of the committee whether or not your one on one session counts as the required training.

I think being proactive and coming up with a solution from the organization would be better than this. Though things might turn into that if nothing is done and the problem becomes bad enough.

#5

My previous comment should have included the requirement that personal training must include the fee for consumables that class attendees pay. If I did a personal session for Plasmacam, I would use the steel reserved for classes and have the person pay $5.00 in an envelope at a pay station. Seems fair.

I totally agree with @lukeiamyourfather final point above. I threw out the question just to cover all bases I could think of. There are often posts on Talk with a request for personal training. I assume that instructors contact the person by Message and work out details. Sounds good to me.

#6

Committees are allowed to delegate training to individuals. In the past, before training classes became the vogue, some of the committees kept a list of the approved trainers and most of the training was informal one-on-one.

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#8

I’m not in favor of charging more for classes. I’m already strapped for cash and it’s a little tricky bpaying the membership fee which really gets you nothing until you are trained. I’m not really complaining, just noticing it adds up b

I just joined, so my opinion is worth two shits, so take what you like and leave the rest. It’s worth what you paired for it.

but I can tell you it’s hard and finding being a new member and not being allowed to do anything until you take classes, which are hard to come by. I haven’t spent much time up there so far because I’m not really allowed to use anything I don’t think. We already pay for classes, the popular ones anyway. can some of that go to the instructors- top encouraged more people to step up and do it. Im not against paying the instructors for their time. It’s just hard to be asked to pay more. The DMS quickly becomes way more than $5O/ month. Which is fine, I know we have to keep the lights on, it’s just hard for some of us to afford.

At risk of repeating the above overstepping my bounds, I think the committees need to be responsible for saying we will make sure we offer training every two weeks or month, or every other month as the demand may be. Maybe they already do.

I’m not against a training for pay mode eitherl, which is only fair if the above is implemented I. e. There are cheap classes available if you wait. But if we posted a list of people who will train on demand for a fee that might actually be really nice. Like if I really want to use the laser cutters and the next 4 classes available this quarter on the calendar are totally full, then there’s a list, where I know I can call John and get trained for $20-50 plus consumables. If everyone added their price too, it would keep the pricesb down due to competition, and I would have called down the list from the cheapest in.

Anyway, as a newcomer it is discouraging how hard it is to get trained on the machines I joined to use. There needs to be a list, and maybe there is, of what I am allowed to do and what I need to be signed off on. I’m signed off on the 3D printers, but I’m unsure if I am allowed to use the electronics room or part of the assemblies space or really anything else, or do I need training firs. So to be safe, I try not to enter the other spaces. I try and check the calendar every few days to look for classes that are available that fit my schedule with work and that cover the things that I want to use. Can we add that to the wiki, things that require approval to use. . If someone wants to give me the info I can add there wiki page.

Anyway, there are tons of classes, but basic training classes are hard to find. I think we would retain more members if the basic into classes were much more available. There only ons I see are Haas and laser cutting and those see always full.

Sorry for the long post. I’m in a rambling mood. Sorry for any typos I’m on my phone.

TL;dr I wish there were more into classes for the newcomer who is excited to get started.

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#9

Sidenote: If you’re a dues-paying member, there are no bounds to overstep.

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#10

Wow my last post was long. How do I find training? We should create an list of people to contact liked someone said.
If there committee is OK with it I can train in electronics and 3d printing. I know I’d need to get some more info from both groups first. So, mariner not yet. But once I’m more established.

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#11

With what I have in mind nothing would prevent someone from teaching a class for low cost or free. People could continue to volunteer their time however they wish. The problem is we just don’t have enough people teaching some classes the way things are setup now. There wouldn’t be a minimum price for classes or anything like that.

This would simply be another avenue for people to get training when training is otherwise unavailable. As you’ve said it’s hard to get training for some stuff. Whether you chose to pay for a class offered regularly or wait until someone offers it for low cost or free is something you could decide.

A tool matrix is in the works that will indicate what tools require training and what kind of training. I don’t think it’s complete at this point but @AlexRhodes or @John_Marlow might be able to share information on the state of it.

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#12

I am neither of them, but:
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/bod-meeting-8-25-17-tool-access/25179/

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#13

Well it’s hard. Even if I do decide to pay anb instructor, there’s no way to figure out who to pay.

I think we need a member list with names, emails, and officer numbers along with what they are approved my to teach. And finally another column describing if they are OK being contacted. Any one can opt out though of course. We already have this info in the adminstrative stuff

#14

The Elab is open to all members.
Currently there are no training requirements to use the lab gear.
Use common sense - which includes:
When in doubt, just ask!
Watch the Events Calendar.
Classes on test gear basics are coming

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#15

I’m suggesting we make that easier but with regularly scheduled classes that members know they can rely on rather than ad hoc one on one sessions.

#18

Your opinion has the same value as any other member.

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#19

What classes do you teach

#20

This is not universally true. As I often say in the classes - “I can teach you how to use the machine but that doesn’t teach you machining”. The same is true in woodworking., I can teach you how to use the table saw but that does not teach you how to build a table.

I’m going to go full bore at getting the machine shop classes online when I get back from my trip. This will help members gain access. nothing else. I feel the most beneficial part of our MS classes is/has been the hands on portions. Going strictly online removes that portion. I’m hoping we can compensate by moving on to instructional classes that are either project related (real hands on and you walk away with something) and more theory (as in how to do precision measurements i.e. real machining). However, these classes will still require willing instructors.

Granted, the machine, metal, and wood shop do require practical knowledge about the craft. unlike printing plastic and printing with a laser.

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#21

Here’s the classes Zach has taught:
image

Don’t know why Membership meeting is there.

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#23

When I really wanted to learn about the resin printer so I paid someone $50 outta my pocket to learn. The project I was working on puttered out but I still have high hopes.

#24

I still think the option of paying out an additional stipend through application to either a chair or the BoD is the answer. Woodshop is high demand but other committees like science have few instructors and may want to incentive them so they don’t Peter out.

I will say I think if a class is required for an entire committee area or the majority of it the training required should be added to the tool matrix and if it’s like Multicam where there’s traditionally a fee and a large draw that should be stated as well. I can see where a new member would feel a little fleeced if they joined for say the HASS but didn’t know it would be three classes and $75 to get access to it because that’s not really clear until after.

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