What percent of Talk should be redirected to /dev/null?
Hmmm…if you are just playing along, then my playing along answer would probably be something self-deprecating like “just my posts should do it”.
If you were being more serious, then honestly I am not sure, but I’d say at least 10%, probably closer to 20%, and maybe as high as 30% of posts don’t add anything to the particular thread/topic in which they were posted. I.E. if they just suddenly disappeared at the moment of posting them the specific threads, or even the overall forums taken as a whole, would not be any worse off for it.
Not really serious.
The answer is probably that I should read less.
1 Like
…scan while simultaneously cranking up the noise filter.
I thought the filter was working until I tried to understand the honorarium issue yesterday. I may need the heavy duty filter.
1 Like
After a couple years of respite, I’m back in DMS and teaching electronics classes. Its great to see that many of the old traditions are still in place. Unfortunately, the tradition of disrespect of teachers is still alive and well. Last night I had a class that had six registered plus two who I accepted after the class was full. Three of the registered folks plus the two that I accepted did not show - no early or late cancellations, no messages, no apologies.
Many teachers try to minimize this by various techniques well documented above. These work with varying degrees of effectiveness but all have one thing in common: they put additional load on the teacher. @jphelps has one of the most interesting. He keeps up with no-shows and registrations require his approval after he checks his list of previous no-shows. If I start that method, I now have five names at the top of my list.
On the other hand, the tradition of respect and appreciation of teachers by most people has never been better. We had five attendees and a lot of fun even as I slipped considerably on time management.
I believe one of the main reasons for the incredible success of DMS has been the teachers and the processes that keep classes rolling out.
If you have not taught a DMS class, please do not let the actions of a few discourage you. The rewards of teaching far exceed the possibility of receiving an honorarium.
9 Likes
I’m sure this has been proposed, discussed or argued before, but I’d be fine with a system that required a refundable deposit in advance. Perhaps $10-20. It could be something escrowed by DMS on a continuous basis and as long as you don’t no-show classes, you can register freely. If you no-show a class your deposit is forfeited to the instructor and you need to make another deposit in order to register for any new classes.
2 Likes
@mdredmond I was glad to give you your first “like” on this because I appreciate your throwing out a suggestion but I’m not a strong supporter of it. A strong advantage of the current system is that it is so easy to sign up and take a class. A strong disadvantage is documented in many of the 97 replies above. I did my post this morning, bumping an old string to the top, not as a grumble to remind people of the problem of no-shows and to show newer teachers of various techniques, also documented above, that other teachers use.
1 Like
This is the reason I stopped teaching a while ago. In one case I bought lumber for the class, it was a one-board birdhouse class, and only one student showed.
Now I won’t teach a class without a student having to pay $10 or more in the registration. So far the classes I’ve taught recently are full and almost everyone shows and when they didn’t the students notified me of their reasons for missing the class. (Family emergency or work related absences)
If the student doesn’t have any monetary investment in registering then not showing up somehow doesn’t have a cost to them. I know it is very disingenious but it is the world we live in today.
3 Likes
I think something like what I proposed wouldn’t make it any harder to sign up. That deposit I suggested would just be something on permanent deposit subject to forfeiture - not something you have to pay each time you sign up. Current sign-up mechanism wouldn’t be affected except that the system would check that you had a valid no-show deposit sitting in escrow.
1 Like
In the past, IIRC correctly around 2016-2017 or so, it started with Wood Shop Basic classes. Big back log, when two or three classes would go up, some folks would sign up for all of them - then decide later which they’d attend, never bothering to cancel. They were out nothing and blocked people out from signing up and classes held weren’t full. Big problem when trying to clear a backlog.
Then a $5 sign-up fee was imposed. NON-REFUNDABLE. Refundable deposits become very burdensome from Finance administration standpoint. Very minimal amount. It’s amazing how worthless “Free” sign-ups are or basically “Free” anything. But that $5 fee resulted in a BIG drop off in multiple sign-ups. Having to pay $10-$15 just for convenience is something most people won’t pay. Now selecting a class had a cost.
It worked very well and was only used for classes that had big backlogs and sign-up problems. I have always preferred the the “No Fee” for classes model as classes are good and important reason to main membership at DMS - and a reason to show up. This is different from any material fees that are needed for the class. I would suggest this be reused again on a case by case basis.
3 Likes
I still have some no-shows however it’s been much improved once I began following this process and not too much extra work for the me as the instructor.
- If you no show I put your name on a list with the date of class you skipped
- If you never enroll again that’s the end of it
- If however I see you enroll again you will receive an email from me asking why I shouldn’t choose the reject button on your request and I reference your past behavior.
- To date I think almost everyone had a halfway decent excuse and then, when accepted into the class, they followed through with their commitment to come to the class OR cancelled appropriately beforehand if they couldn’t make it.
- If I ever have anyone no-show twice, I’m going to place an asterisk next to their name on my list and reject them automatically if I see any new request from them. Two strikes and you’re out. I’m a volunteer and I don’t have time for such nonsense from adults.
(This has not occurred in 2+ years)
9 Likes
@jphelps Thanks for posting your plan. I had thought about trying to find a previous post where you described it. This saved me the trouble and gives your latest thoughts on it.
When an instructor submits a class, there is a section for Restrictions that has checkoffs for “DMS Members Only” and “Attendees Require Approval.”
If Require Approval is checked, an email is sent to the teacher when someone signs up. They can Accept or Reject the request. As with every other option, it adds a task that the teacher must keep up with but it works well for Jay and probably others.
1 Like
Ummm… we’re already having issues keeping the Calendar functioning at the level it’s set up for. Have we gotten back the feature that updates the “Full” status correctly? No. I’ve heard of several “issues” from folks wanting to update the Calendar. (Too many hands, bad coding/documentation, version issues, etc.)
I mean, it’s a lovely thought, but I don’t think we can implement it.
1 Like
I don’t think so. I register for ten different classes and my credit limit is lowered by $100 to $200. Just no.
1 Like
So you are saying a one-time tax on anyone wanting to take a class? Would you provide a way to get the back if someone was to quit or not take any more classes?
1 Like
IMHO, a limited degree of “public shaming” can be helpful. Have a public list of the blatant no-show offenders so that all instructors can know whose registrations to question or cancel.
2 Likes
Of course.
If not this, then a much more punitive system could be put in place. Would you rather that?
We are all paying $50-60 per month to be members. A $20 deposit isn’t that big a deal.
1 Like
The no-show problem is the unfortunate result of the combination of a registration system and a limit on attendance.
A better way would be classes that are first come-first served with an optional fee to guarantee a seat.
1 Like
This is, more or less, what we have now. Sign up for the class. Pay the fee (that most of our instructors are placing on their classes to help establish attendee “skin in the game”) for a seat and you’re in like Flynn. Don’t sign up, or pay the fee, and we advise you to show up anyway, and see if there are any no-shows and if the instructor is willing/able to take “standbys”. I can not speak for all instructors, but the standbys are typically accepted first come first served when I am able.
Edited to add: this is one of the places I miss Carienn. She was always very vocal about not nickle & diming members for whom the $40.00-$60.00/mo is already a struggle. I appreciate her advocacy for the retired/fixed income/others not “flush” with funds, even when I disagreed with some of the measures proposed.
6 Likes