Five No-Shows, a Late Cancellation and No Honorarium

DMS General
#1

Today five people did now show up and one cancelled within thirty minutes of class start time. The good news is that two great guys showed up and we had a great time. I limit the class to eight because I furnish all the microcontrollers and sensors and don’t care to manage more. It also lets me use the Purple Classroom and keep the larger rooms available for others.

Chris @John_Marlow suggested once that teachers should send a note out a couple of days ahead asking that folks cancel early if they cannot make the class. Also, ask it they have things they would like to be covered. I have done that for some classes but not regularly since no-shows are not generally a problem. I will be more careful in the future. Thanks Chris!

This is not a gripe of the three person rule. I’m actually surprised that it is so low.

This is just a note to pass along the suggestion Chris made.

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#2

Sorry that happened. It’s frustrating. I’ve had something close to that happen before as well.

On my limited size classes (wire jewelry), I’ve started putting a paragraph in there about limited size, please register, BUT if you can’t make it please cancel to free up the spot for someone else. Also, contact info at the bottom, if you are running late please text. If you do, we’re good. But if you don’t you may lose your spot (I frequently have standby folks).

I think it’s helped slightly for those folks that might not really be fully cognizant of registration etiquette. Not completely, still no-shows, but every little bit helps.

I have to take a hard line on my max class sizes for jewelry and what I can comfortably teach and keep the pace we need to, and I know of other classes around the space that are similar. It’s frustrating to have to keep a lower minimum (mine’s usually 6) to ensure class quality, then have enough people flake it jeopardizes the honorarium.

Crap happens. That’s cool. But just cancel, please. If you’re running late, we’re good if you let me know.

I will also put it out there that I’ve started keeping a personal list of no-call/no-show folks. I start seeing a pattern with someone, we’ll be having a talk before they sign up again.

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#3

I believe there may be some programmatic changes in the works for this? No show tracking or whatever? @denzuko might be able to shed some light.

But clearly a problem. I understand teachers are generally reticent to charge for classes sometimes, but I think a token $5 per student goes a long way to keep dilettantes and tourists from signing up in the first place, and creates more of an “engagement cost” for those that do.

Teacher’s can make their individual choices regarding this, of course…

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#4

No show tracking or whatever?

From what I remember at this late of an hour there might be a feature request up on the issue tracker for this. If not then it would be brought up at the software requirements meeting in November.

token $5 per student goes a long way to keep dilettantes and tourists from signing up in the first place, and creates more of an “engagement cost” for those that do.

Agreed, this usually why VCC has a fee for their classes related to professional skills development. Not only as said “engagement cost” but also with career building/professional training classes, such as technology based ones. Most see the class as an investment and a free investment is a worthless one therefore most don’t bother. Requesting a small fee tends to show the attendees that the instructor is as serious as the student about the class.

The other advice one can give to @bpamplin. Given a concern is about class supplies and the cost of providing those supplies. The “engagement cost” would be effective as a direct fee for the students to own a kit of micro controllers and sensors based on the same class, given our 501c status this should be a wholesale fee equal to what the student would spend on their own to acquire the same materials or given the student provides their own materials at class time the fee could be waived, Then include in the curriculum that the student would require the hardware being tough to attend.

Also one could note that the instructor’s are usually the end rule for what happens in a class itself, how fees are required, and what accounts for a student to qualify for attending the course. While most that “kick tires” are never “buyers”, never feel discourage in the course your teaching. Try to reflect on the structure, what is being taught and whom ones audience is that would be attending. Fees go a long way in chasing off “tire kickers” but it also gets in the way of teaching something of value as well.

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#5

I’m sorry to hear that. It is unusual that you did not get three out of eight.

I had planned to help and hector, but did not manage to make it in.

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#6

I have to reiterate my opposition to charging $5 just to have skin in the game. Many members will not be willing or able to pay for many classes at that rate.

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#7

I like @kyrithia reference to attending class etiquette. There is a conversation around unspoken rules. The expectation you attend classes you sign up for is one of them.

Maybe in the future we give students a dependability rating. The worse your rating, the less priority you have to sign up for a class. If higher rated people want the class, you get bumped. Like credit scores, the better you preform, the better your rating.

Perhaps that even affects the cost of a class for that person. A low scoring or new person might have a $5 fee while someone with a better rating gets the same class for free.

The other part is insuring people know the class is coming up. I just did an Fiber Optic upgrade with my phone company and I got text message confirmations about “Confirm appointment (yes/no).” It was very simple and effective.

No show / no cancellation is bad student behavior. It should be strongly discouraged. I get that life happens, please don’t explain that to me. That is what a cancellation is for. Doing nothing when you know you are supposed to be in a class is poor manners and inconveniences the instructor and other students who wanted that class.

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#8

I understand. And in general don’t like it that much myself. But I like what happened to Brady even less. We don’t have good data or statics on this, but I have to wonder how many potential teachers now think twice or have stopped because of this type of disrespectful no-show behavior? Less teachers = less classes = worse for everyone. And to be clear, I am not advocating for a 'Space wide or class wide policy, just pointing out that a teacher has alternatives in this situation when setting up a class.

Still brainstorming: I guess one could imagine a system where $? fee was applied at time of sign-up, and then refunded if student showed up? I’d have to think about possible pros and cons for this, though…

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#9

Overall, I think that’s very wise…

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#10

Fees do go a long way, but I think they cause people to be more mindful of their signing up for the training. S(tuff) happens in life and sometimes priorities can change in the blink of an eye so people will still no-show, but you do get a better level of commitment when you have some money at play.

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#11

FWIW, I charge the $5.00 “frais nominal” (which actually pays for the consumables and metal for the classes) for the PlasmCAM (as we all do, so far as I know) and I still saw only 1/2 of the “confirmed” attendees in the last round.

I (sometimes) wonder if the “frais nominal” puts the attendees in the wrong frame of mind, as customers. Then the cultural corollary “how to we make them ASHAMED of being rude, whether there’s a fee or not?” which I think would be a more efficient path to the desired outcome: make it culturally unacceptable to RSVP and not show. Of course, this is something we fight in daily life where people’s livelihoods are actually (nominally) at stake, and they still just can’t be bothered to show up, or on time, so we’re kind of working against the growing tide to develop that niche here…

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#12

Amen! Shame has a long an powerful history of applying cultural corrections to poor behavior!

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#13

I haven’t taught in the last couple months because of this behavior. At 60 hours a week I could do a class a month but why on earth would I instead of working on personal projects when it’s highly likely I’ll just leave feeling disrespected? I did a pretty decent sum of classes over the summer and didn’t have a single class I taught or attended where at least one person wasn’t a no show or extraordinarily late. Wednesdays casting class was fab…but same thing. Teacher did all the reminders and went through considerable effort to host it. No show and late people. Both are a big spit in the face of the teacher and the students who didn’t get in because of a “full” status. Losing honorarium because of it is rubbing salt in the wound

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#14

When this type of discussion first came up, I opposed the idea that we have any mechanism for ‘punishing’ people who don’t show up. Frankly this was because in my experience (with teaching classes prior to December 2016) that it wasn’t a common problem. However, since starting teaching again in August, I have been amazed at how high a percentage fail to show up, even for classes with materials fees.

I don’t know what has changed, but there seems to have been a cultural shift between last year and this one that seems to make it alright for members to blow off classes they have signed up for. Perhaps it is an outgrowth of the massive increase in the number of classes offered, perhaps not.

Another issue, is one associate with our current rules relating to classes. We currently have a rule embedded in the calendar software (though not documented anywhere, AFAIK) where if you create a cut off date for cancellations, you can not allow late registrations to fill seats for the no shows. I believe a change to this rule is absolutely necessary to starting to solve the problem.

I also suggest that instead of some kind of rating system for students, we embed a simple rule into the upcoming changes to the calendar system. On first failure to show the person has a one month (we can debate the time period) from signing up for classes, on the second two months, etc. Of course the time period and escalation rate can be debated, but this would be a simple to implement, and I believe highly effective means of curtailing the plague of no shows. And lets be honest here, with smart -phones, tablets, etc, there is no reason you can’t be expected to cancel before class.

Further we need to remember that no shows are hurting DMS directly. Honorariums, are the primary means committees have for raising funds for growth.

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#15

This is the result of low cost classes. The value is much more than what’s being charged. The focus on price has created a system of disrespect and perception of low value.

The focus on value and a fair price for that value will attract people who really value the educational opportunity and be willing to pay for it.

Thus more respect and focus.

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#16

That’s a bit harsh… We all know traffic can be terrible in the metroplex… perhaps the start time could be pushed back 30 minutes to help people who have to travel across 635, 35, 75, etc…

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#17

Apologizing for people’s bad behavior and poor time management isn’t going to help the issue, only further enable it.

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#18

It’s common for classes that I attend to have enough no shows to not receive an honorarium. It’s not unusual for me to be the only one who shows up. I used to recommend DMS to any teachers I met but I can’t recommend DMS anymore until this is resolved. Teachers should be paid for their time. If there’s a concern about frivolous classes to collect an honorarium then solve this on the approval side - but once approved for honorarium it should be paid.

Anyone who misses a certain number of classes should be banned for a period of time. I think missing 3 classes earns a 6 month ban from classes might be a good start.

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#19

You totally missed the point of my comment. Look at the start time for the classes that have the most problems and decide if they should be pushed back 30mins to help folks make it through traffic on time. If classes are starting at 6p or 6:30p on a weekday then that’s a potential problem.

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#20

How is the start time a ‘problem’? If you aren’t sure you can make the time, ie leave early enough to ensure you can get there on time without regard to traffic issues then you shouldn’t sign up for the class. The problem is the person who committed to showing up on time, not doing so.

I have had plenty of people tell me that they couldn’t be sure they would get to the class because of other schedule issues, but wanted to take it anyway. In those cases I have offered the class again with different time schedules. That is how we should deal with the ‘traffic made me late excuse’.

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