Details on computers in CA, DM, and Laser

8 computers Sheet1.pdf (23.8 KB)

Narrative summary:

All but one (CA-DO3) have a version of Adobe CC2015, 2017, or Production Premium CS6. Various shortcuts were sprinkled around, but I’d presume that with the license there’s a full product installed. To my surprise that was the case on LS-D02 Lasersaur complete with video editing Premeire. Also, there’s a chance DM-D03 is registered with two licenses as both CC2015 and CS6 are indicated in the shortcuts. Adobe upgrades can be beastly to manage, so that’s not an absolute - a shortcut may not have cleared properly. It will take extra doing to figure it out.

I know various committees have advocated at their own expense to buy the software, so I will refrain from opinion on how it should be arranged except to say this might not be the most efficient use of the 7 licenses listed. (And of course, I’ve made a list of how I would shuffle it if that’s something DMS decides. :wink: )


The keyboard on LS-D02 was compact. I found it at first amusing and then later annoying since my fingers wanted to land in the wrong places. I’ve seen several extra keyboards at the space. If it bugs anyone else, I’d think a keyboard an easy thing to change.


The RAM for CA-DO1 could stand to go up from 8 to 16. That on CA-D03 registers as 9, which is a funky number for RAM and likely a configuration issue - but it would benefit by a bump to 16 as well.

In Digital media, it might make sense to have both machines at 32. Right now only DM-D02 has the bonus number. DM has a third machine for the scanner that I didn’t touch.


Laser is sporting some fine equipment. It should serve them well for as long as the hardware lives or until a new laser demands an upgrade.


Monitors look good, too. The only one with a two monitor arrangement is the Annex - CA-D02. That monitor is also a pen pad. DM would probably benefit from a second monitor for each editing machine.


Like RAM, hard drives might need some attention. If I recall correctly, some programs cache to the hard-drive, and having less than 50 gigs of free space might cause performance lag, but to be honest, I’ve not kept up with the details.


The Windows license on DM-D03 wants to be activated. Not sure that it matters, but that’s the message.

That leaves the Windows licenses. I think CA-D02 (Annex) needs to go to at least 8.1, but if you are doing that, then 10, especially to help with log in and lock down. It functions differently than the other machines for log in, and the desktop is a dog’s breakfast of images and files saved there.


I interviewed what I’d label “sophisticated” users in both CA and DM. Both indicated the machines they were using (CA-D02 and DM-D02) were working well for them. Both users had pushed both the software and the hardware to full use, and neither experienced problems.

To me, that means processing speeds and video capabilities are fine for all 8 machines since they are relatively identical.

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In summary:

A few sticks of RAM. DM ram can go to a machine in CA if it’s paired, otherwise:

CA - 16 x 2
DM - 32 x 1

A keyboard, if anyone else weighs in on wanting it for Lasersaur.

Two extra monitors for DM (not as important as RAM or maybe even upgrade hard drives, but would certainly improve the ease of video editing.)

Upgrading the Windows licenses. Windows will still allow free upgrades to 10 for all their products for assistive technology users:

(I don’t claim that upgrade recommendation to be absolute, though. I made smooth upgrades at home on three machines, but everyone seems to have a story.)

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Gonna leave another component of this on the CA thread about a digital graphics machine. Will edit to link back when it’s done.

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Edit: Here’s the link - https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/graphics-computers-opinions-and-ideas/18160/84?u=clk75201

One idea I forgot! Each of the work stations listed would really benefit from a monitor shelf that lets a keyboard slide underneath it. (batting my eyes at the woodworkers) That would give a user putzing room at the desk when needed.

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Well no wonder my hard work is getting a cold shoulder.

“Specs: i5-6500, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD Please note that these computers are meant to replace any committee computers (except Digital Media). Existing committee computers will be sold or moved to the multipurpose room…”

Six of the computers slated to be replaced under @bscharff agenda item meet or exceed that spec, just not by Intel name, except for the hard drive. The ram meets or exceeds it in every case. The AMD 8350 lists above the i5 here:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+FX-8350+Eight-Core

The fastest i5-6500 is at spot 324 speed 3.20 GHz. The AMD 8350 Eight-core is higher at 216. Four of the six computers he wants to replace are the speedier AMDs. The other two are i5’s except his speed isn’t known.

WTF? (I don’t use that lightly.)

@bknapp, I could use some back up here. Never met you, but you seem to know your stuff. Here’s a link to the meeting agenda on Sunday.

https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20170319#Creative_Arts_4_point_oh_Board_investing_.241.2C500_.28Nicole_Franczvai.29

Refreshing committee computers has been discussed for awhile. Seemed the right time to revisit…

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Is that supposed to include the aero computer?

Well as specified 4 of the 6 to be replaced would be downgrades, and 2 would be sideways moves.

BTW, well done @AndrewLeCody for the builds in 2013. You nailed years and years of value for the space. https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20130721

I looked through the issues through November 16 and only found one where there was a computer problem, and that was because someone had set it for dual monitors, so I don’t know for sure what the problem is with the current units. Even the monitors are all 22 to 24 inches. (Measured diagonally, 2 inches isn’t always that noticeable.)

Oh! and I found why CA-D03 has RAM at 9! It is a funky number, but apparently those motherboards don’t require paired RAM. https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/closed-request-vinyl-cutter-computer-ram/16440/17

If maintaining the current ones are an issue, I’ll be glad to help. I just think it would be sad to give up performance in exchange for shiny and new. Maybe if you specified i7s at 3.30 GHz (rank 109), 16 RAM, and 500GB SSDs it would be worth the money and time. But even then, I think I’d order 4 or 6 and put them in the common room with the idea they are back up for device committee machines if those go down.

I agree with Brooks that the machines need to be refreshed, and I like the approach to do the committee computers first, and then refresh the workstations.

The synthetic benchmark page you found isn’t really indicative of real-world performance, as it’s, well, synthetic. The machines are approaching the end of their useful life, and it makes sense to replace them all in one fell swoop, particularly with machines that are all identical.

I’m not the world’s biggest fan of Lenovo machines, as their quality dropped off appreciably after they were spun from IBM, and those prices seem high for the generation of machine we’re looking at.

As an example, I called a guy at my old company to get a quote on similar spec machines, and he quoted me this:

HP EliteDesk 800 G2 W10P-64 i7 6700T 2.8GHz 500GB SATA 8GB WLAN BT Intel HD
10 at $519.20 each
3yr NBDOS service agreement
10 at $79 each
HP EliteDisplay E271i 27 inch IPS LED Backlit
10 at $$129.50 each

He also said that when we’re ready to do the workstations, he’s got some deals:

HP z240 W10P-64 i7 6700 3.4GHz 512GB SSD 2-1TB SATA 64GB No-Optical NIC K1200
$1529 each

HP z240 W10P-64 X E3-1280 v5 3.7GHz 256GB NVME 1TB SATA 2-32GB ECC DVDRW NIC W2100
$1170 each

HP z440 W10P-64 X E5-1620 v3 3.5GHz 2-256GB SSD 2-16GB ECC DVDRW NIC Quadro K620
$1443 each

HP z440 W10P-64 X E5-1620 v3 3.5GHz 3TB SSD 2-16GB ECC No-Optical NIC Quadro K620
$2643 each

HP z440 W10P-64 X E5-1650 v3 3.5GHz 2-4TB SATA 2-16GB ECC DVDRW NIC Quadro K620
$1856 each

HP z440 W10P-64 X E5-1650 v3 3.5GHz 512GB SSD 256GB SSD 1TB SATA 2-16GB ECC No-Optical NIC FirePro W2100
$1739 each

HP z440 W8.1P/W7P-64 X E5-1620 v3 3.5GHz 128GB SSD 16GB(2x8GB) BluRay-Writer Quadro K4200
$2324 each

Anyway, this all digresses from the point. By moving from homebuilt machines where we own them (and their problems) to machines with warranties and service plans, we’re greatly simplifying the stress on the volunteers that run our internal systems. A single image can be built of our integrated operating environment and deployed (remotely!) to the machines in case of an issue that requires a wipe and refresh.

Not to mention, by moving to the current gen of parts, it eliminates discussions like you found with why a machine has 9GB of RAM installed. It just makes things easier all-around.

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Please god, no HP machines, especially if we are expecting support on them.

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Thanks for you effort and experience on this subject. I stand corrected. (That’s my self defense kicking in. I need to say I was wrong.) I’m glad I asked for your help.

Maybe I can cross my fingers for 16GB of RAM on the machines loaded with Adobe CC. :slight_smile:

I see the posse just ganged up against HP, but the numbers you gave indicate 10 machines with similar specs for less than $7,500 [10($520 + 80 + 130)] instead of the $12,000 being requested (10 from general + 2 from infrastructure)

Would it make sense to have more than one quote for the same Lenovo specifications before the board approves the expense? Lots of companies rep that brand, right?

The Z workstations are actually great. I sell a bunch every year. They have onsite 3 year warranties.

So do the Elite line desktops.

I’ve never had an issue with the service for the elite line or z line of stuff from HP. The consumer lines are crap (as are everyone’s consumer lines), but the business lines are built like tanks. I miss using them for work.

The actual NBDOS is fulfilled by a local partner, so if there was an issue, we’d just get whoever is local to the space.

Provided by Compaq HP?
Because my last go-round with HP “on site” included several weeks of the vendor “they” chose to fulfill onsite warranty (our only choice) NOT doing what I told them to do to fix the problem. Once they did what I told them to do, voila.
I am positive my opinion will receive tonnes of pushback but if you live in the Republic, I don’t know why you use anything other than Dell for desktop units. The silver bullet being to get Dell certified so you can order & install your own parts (something no other vendor offered comparables, last I was able to tell, haven’t done this in a while).
Similar stories on IBM/Lenovo (crappy service from the 3rd party selected to provide onsite work), but we only ever had a handful of those (crappy service on the initial investment led to their being out of the running in future purchases)

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So pick up a quote for 10 from Dell under similar specs for the board meeting Sunday?

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Any manufacturer will let you do a parts depot and self replacement if you’re willing to certify and have enough machines… but we’re about 990 machines short of getting to that point.

I’m not wedded to HP by any means, but when it comes to getting the most for your dollar, they’re a good call.

My experience with HP business class machines (several years ago) has soured me with doing business with them ever again. They would change specs without changing part numbers, service was done thru a local outfit that we could NOT decline, and they refused to just send us parts for us to replace.

It would take a lot to convince me to give any money to HP.

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@AlexRhodes - Did you convince Dell to sponsor DMS?

No unfortunately. 234567890

We can make them feel better about rejecting us by selling DMS product at their cost. :slight_smile:

The warranty is from HP, but as bknapp points out, it’s actually provided by a local contractor (lowest bid I’m sure). We have had good luck with the local guys (our office is real close to the Makerspace) for the few times that we’ve had issues in the past couple years. We do a lot of the higher end Z stations with custom configs.

We do a few of the T7910 workstations from Dell every year too, but they’re quite obviously built to a lower price point than the Z840 from HP, and the Dells have had an anecdotally higher rate of issues for us.

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Just out of curiousity, do you mean this thing? http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/uscorp1/corp-comm/corporate-sponsorships

Yes. I’ll probably submit again in the near future, but we’ll see.