CNC Plasma Cutter discussion

[TBJK]

The time is what I feel upon us to begin a healthy discussion on the eventual replacement of the Plasmacam.

I have been looking at many many models & brands. I have been taking the pros & cons down to bring into the committee meeting to discuss them.

The brands that I have looked at so far are

1. Torchmate

2. JD2 MAD series

3. Forest Scientific

4. Multi-cam

5. Dynatorch

6. EZCUT----- standard tables are too big

7. Plasmacam

Some of these manufacturers are rather limited on the cut sheets. Does anyone have any other manufacturers they would like to suggest? I used to be a bit more connected but have lost touch with the other different manufacturers.

[TBJK]

All of the ones i listed use hypertherm except Torchmate. Mad does not come with a cutter. The hypertherm we could use the same consumables we have now. Additionally we can get a pretty good hand held kit.

[talkers]

i am in favor of a system that does not need a parallel port driver. And works with SVGs and Fusion 360. So, something modern.

[jast]

I think those brands meet and exceed any efforts I’d made in the past.
I would love to see a document of some sort noting pros and cons that we can all add to/make notes on. Wiki’s one way. Google Doc’s another. Wiki post on here… I’m sure there are other ways. If we (I) create such a thing, in what would you be willing to participate ?

For historical reference:

Frank Disucssion RE: CNC Plasma & The Near Future

Continuing the discussion from Plasma Cutter - ERROR Light (Not cutting): From what little I have read, the DHC V1 with which this machine is equipped as I understand it, never worked very well. DHC2 supposedly worked pretty well, but is no longer available for purchase (has anyone tried calling PlasmCAM to see?). There is also the question of whether we want to upgrade a machine we do not own (and solid arguments on both sides). So. I know some folks H-A-T-E the PlasmaCAM and would like for…

[TBJK]

One thing that I have noticed looking around is that most of the models have been updated in the past few years. While this may be good, it does make the history a bit more difficult and market narrower for research. I hope that at some point during the day today to post what I have found for the pros & cons of each system.

[Tres0422]

So I’m in agreement…mostly w/ @zmetzing…I haven’t run into issues w/ the plasmacam, but keep the consumables to one type of torch. Whatever plasma system we go with we should get 2 power supplies/torches. One for hand use and one for the CAM setup. The spectrum is too underpowered and uses different consumables.

My 1 & 2 are:

  1) Multicam
          A) fusion 360 post processor is there and can easily be used!  Kick ass!
          B) if we went with a 6000 series 12” of Z-axis travel would be AWESOME!
          C) More influence since they are local and we will have 2 of their tools
          D) we used to or may still have a member that worked there....she knew a lot and gave valuable insight.
 
    2) Forrest Sci
          A) 8.5” z-travel and magnetic breakaway
          B) optional 4th axis

[TBJK]

@Tres0422 , Multicam has a 4th axis as well on some of their machines. I don’t see it being really practical though.

SO here is what I was able to find out just by searching around. JD2 has probably the most documentation on the machines out there. Then followed by Torchmate & Multicam. This was done by digging around on their websites. I do intend when I call them Monday of asking 50 questions…lol

CNC Plasma cutters

1. Torchmate

Pros’s
After sales support-free
Unlimited license for students to design in.
Dedicated HMI.
Onboard nesting.
Pre-assembled
Comes with plasma cutter
Training documentation already exists

Cons
Price, more expensive
Told that you can not break cuts on larger sheets, no 4x8 sheet
Stepper for drive motors (360 oz) instead of servos. Limited to 500ipm

Notes, Lincoln Plasma cutter included

2. JD2 MAD series

Pros
Price 4x4 is listed at 12,950 as of 1-23-18 without plasma cutter
Can use marking system, sharpie layout & laser at additional cost.
Comes with the computer. Power supply is sealed
Auto height controls, Ohmic & Floating head
Magnetic breakaway
Gantry is machined surfaces.
Uses servos & can have speeds up to 1250 ipm
Stainless tub for water table for no additional cost.
Gantry rolls on round rails, debris make it harder to get built up.
Can use multiple different supports, strait, half arc or full arc

http://jd2.com/p-114-mad-series-plasma-tables.aspx

Cons,
No plasma cutter included
Relatively new to the market place
Hard to tell about the computer, if its a standard desktop or industrial.

Note that buying the plasma cutter at the same time as the table, they cut us a batter deal on the plasma cutter

3. Forest Scientific

Pros

Turn key
E-stop
On screen safety reminders
Onsite factory training
THK Profiled hardened and ground Linear rails
THK Recirculating linear bearings with grease fittings
Keyboard short cuts
36 month warranty

Cons
Height controls is optional on the makerspace version
Magnetic breakaway is optional on the makerspace version
Steppers, however they are 1200 oz/in
Grease fittings may be a Con.
Comes with a standard computer
Not much documentation

4. Multicam

V-series
1-101P

Uses hypertherm plasma cutter, Pro series uses MAXPRO200
Cutting speeds up to 800 IPM
Rapids 1200 IPM
Auto height controller
Pendant has standard shapes(on the machine I saw in a video)
V-pro optional plate rider for thin sheet metal.

Cons
Down draft table. On the V series. Pro, water table is an option.
Does not specify if the break away torch is an option.

4. Dynatorch

Super B 4x4

Servo driven Fast speeds
Sealed bearings on the Z height
Height controls standard
Stainless water table
Uses USB & not Serial or parallel.
Collision protection
Laser locator
Marking attachment
CAD/ Cam options

Note, Belt driven with imbedded steel cables, maybe a downfall, I’m not familiar enough with it.

5. EZ-Cut

Tables too big 4x8, They do not offer standard 4x4 tables. A custom table can be made though

6. Plasmacam

Pros
Similar to what we have.
Training may not have to be updated much.

Cons
Aftermarket support is rather limited & cost money for technical support.
Gantry & rails are made of just mild steel. Evidence of this becoming an issue is apparent with the current system.

Questions

---

Here is a list of questions I intend on asking.

CAD/Cam or just DXF?

Local customer for possible tour demo?

Standard lead time?

Price stability/ how long is the quote good for?, it may take 4-5 months to clear funding due to monthly allocation limit for tools.

Intentions of backwards compatibility ?

Availability of replacement parts?

What is the life expectancy?

What are the maintenance requirements?

Cut breaks for larger than the table allows?

Magnetic break away, How is the cut re-established

Ease of use?

Quote for with a hypertherm 85 & or greater.

Do you give discounts to educational non-profits?

Technical Support, Is it free or do you charge?

How long is the Warranty? Is it parts & Labor?

How long have you been in business & making CNC plasma cutter?

How are the X,Y & Z gantry guide made? What are they made of? What is done to protect the integrity of those guides?

Is Nesting available?

[kbraby]

Would like staying with hypertherm consumables, and a matching handheld.

[TBJK]

That’s kinda the good thing, Hypertherm is available with all of them except Torchmate.

[bpamplin]

For those of us that have the consumable kit, does this mean we would need to keep using the Retrofit torch for compatibility? Is Retrofit the desirable torch to use as we look to upgrade for the future?

[Photomancer]

I don’t think downdraft will be an issue as we are required to have it vented. Also, we don’t use the water tank capability. All your other pros and cons are good.

[TBJK]

The newest hypertherm uses the torch we have now & the consumables. That in itself is a plus. The is some slight differences when it comes to the shield & retaining cap. But thats minor, it is the difference that it is Ohmic & has height controls…Height controls!!! No more manually setting the height.

[TBJK]

In a way, Id like to have it be a water table, but there are downfalls to it. It makes it harder to retrieve the smaller parts that may fall in. In my understanding the JD2 Mad series being in either the Half arc or full arc gives less space between the supports alowing the smaller parts to be retained. Another small downside is the come fluids may stain some materials.

There are a couple chemicals to use as inhibitors, one I read was safe for goldfish up to 20% concentration. They claim its non-toxic.

One is Pico Plasmaquench, cant seem to find the other. I dont think it was Greencut.

Reason I’m thinking water table is to keep the dust down.

EDIT, We will be having a committee meeting within the next week & a half. I will post actual Quotes when I get them Monday (hopefully). I want people to have a say in the machine that we will be getting. So if you cant be there, Have someone be your proxy.

[Photomancer]

I’m like you, I prefer down-draft to water.

There is folded fiberglass blanket just for that purpose out there. even if you cover just half the table the effect is dramatic. Takes about 20 seconds to unfold and lay across table.

In a commercial setting where table is run multiple hours a day water makes sense, but I’ve seen them where both water and exhaust are used.

[bpamplin]

I teach PlasmaCAM and the blanket is news to me. Tell me more.

[Photomancer]

It’s folded up into about an 18" square, woven white fiber glass material with finished edges. It usually sitting on something near plasma cutter.

[TBJK]

This is exactly why I posted the information. I thought we wanted to get a better control on smoke and dust.

I thought of a couple more questions

Can you adjust the cut speed on the fly?

Can you change the direction of the way you want it to cut? I know JD2 can on this one.

[Photomancer]

Agreed. That’s why the Media “Dust Storm” Blaster is going to be replaced with a Water Blaster.

The CNC plasma cutter is being discussed because it’s worn out and needs replacing. - especially the Z-axis. The water vs downdraft I think is more of a what would we like discussion. But given we are required to have it vented, the discussion really is: Down-draft with or without water.

[Tres0422]

@TBJK
Tim, the work you’ve done is awesome! I really appreciate you exerting the time/effort.

I still don’t love Lincoln. The TIG. Having to have already been in the shop for a board swap makes me doubt their longevity.

[talkers]

@TBJK

Uses USB & not Serial or parallel.

Uhhh, I wasn’t kidding about a modern system. But I didn’t expect this as a highlight on just one of the many options.

Re: software. Support for fusion cam would be best. Imagine using that with their sheet metal feature.

Re: multicam. Tell them @fedakkee will make a violin out of metal if they give us one.