Found this around 8:00 a.m. (ish) in Woodshop:
@Chris_Fazio, I believe you were in overnight, as the rolling ladder was once again (5th timein a row?) left at/under your storage shelf as opposed to being returned to its marked Home. Did you happen to notice who was leaving these messes?
@Team_Woodshop, @shoottx (should probably be added to the team_woodshop list)
The title is an excellent question, especially since I’ve seen it look worse in the past. I used to spontaneously clean the wood shop when I first joined, but just got tired of people deserting their projects laying everywhere when they decided to leave and I quit cleaning up.
Your experience/perspective is not uncommon and is one of the underlying issues with the general decrease in volunteerism around DMS, especially the core/central form of individuals doing a little each time they are in. I.E. why bother if what you do to help can be so easily undone or undermined by the act of a single person.
Marshall
Is the switch on the spindle sander broken? The emergency shut off cover is laying on the ground. It was on the machine when I left at about 11:00PM last evening.
I’ll double check this a.m. and post back here if it’s not working.
I agree, completely I shouldn’t make other people clean their mess up! It won’t happen again! I do like this system of keeping everybody accountable and making a post about each individuals mess left to keep everyone honest! Or is that just something that happens with me? Cause while hibituality may be the rational I am fa from the only one who meets that criteria yet I see no other post concerning them…
Oh and the 5th time in a row is obvious bullshit cause I wasn’t there Friday-Monday tues wed I was so little over embellished On the claim about the ladder but the rest is justified and accurate
Not days in a row, times that you were here in a row. Fred Gardener put it back yesterday, and I put it back three times for sure recently that I can specifically remember…I am happy to amend the count to those specific instances. I’ll also acknowledge that it’s possible that someone else left it in that exact spot for some reason.
What is specific about you is that you are so prolific regarding mess making/leaving, in conjunction with that you have been talked to about this several times, and are more-or-less on record as saying you just can’t be bothered to clean up after yourself. You are unique for these three reasons combined.
And actually I was just asking if you knew who did it, although it was a bit passive-aggressive since I am now able to recognize your certain brand of mess. Isn’t that in and of itself noteworthy?
BUT, if you are sincere in the statement “It won’t happen again!” than that resolves any issues I have…this was a behavior based beef i had,nothing else.
First off I said that as a sarcastic remark to your intelligence bellitling comment about maybe it’s the concept of dust collection and how it works that might be hard to understand for me! And like I said in my comment habitually isn’t a criteria that would isolate just me, and as far as being talked to, if I’m the only one who’s been talked to about mess leaving I think that speaks poorly more of y’all then me cause that means there are multiple other hibutual mess leavers that as you put it are disrespecting the rest of Dms that y’all are letting slip under your radar and not being held accountable, now I understand it’s easier to force all the blame one a single person but if this is really about accountablitliy, then how about enforcing accountability, if so I look forward to seeing all the other post holding everyone accountable for their actions so everyone including myself can take responsibility and resolve this problem
So you want to be held accountable as well as others. @Team_Woodshop seems like time for a temporary ban from the area.
Along with @prl2018, I took a look at spindle sander off switch/plate:
One can see where the left side knob/nib/thingy has busted off in top picture. The actual red switch plate is fine, and it is easy to see how it is supposed to fit back in. I tried my hardest to get plate to snap back on but it just. won’t. go. back. on! You’ll understand when you try it. Which, of course, begs the question: how the hell did it ever come off when it is just supposed to be pushed in to activate off switch!?
You have to pull before you push, obviously.
Just my personal opinion, but I don’t think that particular switch set up is very well designed. Would not be surprised if someone tried to start by pushing the green ribbed section, it didn’t start (because you actually have to push on just the bottom smooth green part), then tried lifting the red paddle and it broke.
I have no clue why they have the top green ribbed section. If it serves a purpose, I didn’t pursue long enough to figure it out.
Is that your new suggestion for a policy for Dms we’re banning for messes? Cause I’ll happily accept the ban if we make it a no tolerance 3 strike( 3 messes and the 4th your banned temporarily) if that’s truly your wish! Cause the issue here isn’t I didn’t make a mess, I did and didn’t clean up, the issue is the 14 other people that were there that same night and didn’t clean up which you can see in the last pic cause I was using Nogal which is dark brown but there’s white dust under the brown dust on the band saw so it’s not just me, but I only see a post about my mess is my point
So what is your malfunction?
Why can’t you clean up after yourself?
Why is it that you think that your time is more valuable than everyone elses?
Having seen what you’ve left behind, I can’t for the life of me understand why we haven’t given you a temp ban.
Come try that in machine shop, your results will be very different.
Besides the workshop work tables, and possibly automotive at certain times, I see more negligent, lazy messes left behind for others to clean up in woodshop than anywhere else. I have always wondered why woodshop isn’t enforcing loss-of privilege penalties for these types of messes (see the above spindle sander table mess).
One could make the argument that reviewing camera video is a PITA, but it’s happening so frequently in woodshop, it shouldn’t be too difficult to identify several offenders and make examples out of them. I am all for an objective due process and verification that an offense is real (i.e., that the member did in fact leave a mess behind for a notable length of time).
Post conspicuous notices about cleaning up after yourself, slap offender’s hands, institute temporary bans and a progressive form of discipline that could lead to harsher penalties for multiple offenses. This worked pretty well for us in Laser last year.
@Chris_Fazio your rational is funny to me. It seems you as well as many other in the wood shop committee have come to the understanding that you deserve to be banned from the area. Yet, you continue to behave poorly and flaunt it in the face of the committee.
Is the head of the committee so conflict adverse that the wood shop is incapable of policing itself?
I’ve noticed a marked improvement in cleanliness in the woodshop. Is this just the work of one person killing themselves or is the whole committee doing this. Please police the abusers, because not doing so only empowers them to do what Chris is doing here. Plus, he has now made this a visible and loud defiance of your policies. Not enforcing at this point shows favoritism and only makes your job harder. I can tell you if I see anyone else getting yelled at for a little mess, I’ll just point them to this thread in the future.
It’s all about personal accountability. Don’t worry about the other people making messes. Make sure you manage your own messes. It’s like littering, you can’t control everybody else, you just need to focus on your behavior. If a Cop pulls you over for littering, arguing that “but others do it too…” is not a defense that will work very well.
Take personal responsibility for your actions. That’s the only thing you can truly control.
Got I hate to be aggressive but you’re not reading and understanding what I’m saying, and I’m only responsible for what I say, not what you understand! I AGREE with all the policies put in place, what I am speaking out against is being singled out like I’m the only one who left a mess that night when there were several other people who hibitually leave mess and are there as much as I am leaving a mess and nothing gets said but I get a post calling me out when there’s other people doing it too who slide right past the radar unscathed. Again to reiterate so you get it! I AGREE with all the policies and regulations put in place I’m neither laughing in the face not disrespecting this post I’m just saying if I get called out let’s call everyone who leaves messes hibitually out not just me
As mentioned, speaking for myself, I am perfectly OK with with your promise to work clean (a hopefully slight rewording) and consider the issue closed. If you see anyone else making messes and not cleaning up before next person uses the tool/area, you should: 1) talk to them; 2) if needed talk to them again more forcefully; 3) talk to committee mgmnt if still needed; and 4) if necessary start posting here and calling them out. This organizational self-policing is all of our responsibility, collectively.
In my experience, it is very rare for things to progress past 2nd stage.
