Looks like it’d cost a person about the same to acquire “the whole thing” on CD…
https://shop.iccsafe.org/codes/2018-international-codes-and-references/2018-i-code-sets/i-quest-2018-complete-14-collection-cd-rom.html
Well, “as low as”…
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I get it, but once it’s law, it is by definition in the public domain. Or should be. I should not have to pay to see the laws I am expected to follow.
I’m not talking about publishing “their” writings. I’m talking about publishing the laws adopted by a government. The fact that they contain the same words in the same order is not my problem.
Whelp found this in the interim; check Public Resource for copies, however the real question is whether they are complete or up to date.
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I’m thinking that these would be available at the public library. While I would also hope that there is someplace at, oh, City Hall where these laws could also be viewed, I’m not sure exactly where they would be available for public viewing.
https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IFC2018P3
https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IFC2018P3/chapter-2-definitions
Hmm… That doesn’t seem applicable…
So far, I’ve found nothing about prohibiting individuals from using aerosols at a business (I think that’s the objection here… not quite sure…)
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That’s IFC. Don’t forget we fall under IBC, NFPA, and others as well.
IBC has a lot to say on places where flammable liquids/gasses, organics, and related are used. Don’t even get me started on NFPA
I’m currently AFK and just have my phone rather than a desktop, but I think this is one of the relevant sections of IBC.
https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IBC2018P3/chapter-3-occupancy-classification-and-use
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Making them available for public viewing is not making them public. If I can’t read them on my sofa while eating pizza, drinking a beer and petting my dog then they aren’t public enough.
I don’t care what deals my government decides to cut with a private publisher, it damn well better not prevent me from reading the law under the conditions I decide are right for me.
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Sounds like you might have an entitlement issue here.
Building records are public, can’t view them at home…
Lots of court records are public but you have to go to the courthouse to view them…
Lots of FOIA information is public record, it isn’t something you can view while doing the above noted activities.
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None of this has anything to do with the topic which sparked this whole thread:
So we’re looking for the reason the BoD declared canned propellants (e.g. spray paint) “off limits”.
It would be swell if @Diplomat @Kriskat30 @Photomancer @LukeStrickland and/or @dr_cee, as the members of the Board from whence this edict was declared, were to weigh in on which statute, exactly, served as the impetus. At the very least, it would be great if some one of those would tell us that they have been placed under a gag order and have no further comment…
The minutes show this as an “announcement”, with no backing documentation I can see:
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20190318
As explained at that board meeting, on a visit from the Fire Marshal he informed DMS that “rattle can” spray paints were not permitted due to a potential fire hazard. Most have propane or other flammables as propellants. And as Rich Meyer @richmeyer has also mentioned, the FM informed us that the person doing this could be fined up to $2,000. The individual would be personally cited and liable for the fine.
While DMS may not be fined, it would bring unwanted and additional scrutiny from the FM, something not desirable. By prohibiting it it does two things: (A) it puts members on notice they shouldn’t be doing this at DMS (I personally didn’t realize spray paint at DMS wasn’t permitted) and (B) Even though DMS wouldn’t be liable, it would bring unwanted additional attention to DMS. Once they are here, they tend to take a look around - and I don’t believe they have never gone away without warning us on something. Fortunately no fines.
Would the preferred course of action be, say nothing and let someone get fined? I can hear it now: Why weren’t we told/warned! We don’t need the attention.
What a person can do at home and what they can do at DMS are two very different things. Another similar item that keeps coming up is pouring chemicals down the drains. Making them a neutral pH isn’t enough. Any of those violations WILL be against DMS.
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Awesome post!
Thank you.
To the best of my knowledge, this is the first (and to date, only) time HOW this announcement came to be has been made available to the membership at large (save rumor-mill). While I would still love to see the basis of the fire marshall’s having informed us, I appreciate your letting us in on how it came to our consciousness at all. I, too, would never have dreamed a member could be cited by anyone for spray painting something in or near our building (I still really don’t believe it, and won’t until I see the written word, but I appreciate the Announcement, the directors taking action to prevent an event none of us needs, and your candor in this thread). Thank you.
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Remember, this is the same Fire Marshal that told us that we weren’t allowed to have a book on Beer Brewing on site. I personally feel that his opinion is not very reliable. YMMV
Russell Ward
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Horseshit.
I should be able to read laws anytime and anywhere. That doesn’t mean I can force someone else to publish them for me for that purpose. But it does mean government shouldn’t prevent someone from doing so.
Thanks for putting together a response. For those folks unable to attend said board meeting, we had been off and on asking for a year now since the posters around the space did not adequately explain where the rule was stated and who was enforcing it. I think between this reply and Rich’s offer to look at the locked away books we have enough to cobble together the situation.
So next question. If only rattle cans were explicitly stated, why the panic about anything and everything aerosol? I guess we can start stocking spray accelerator for CA again. Possibly spray Ceremark if it doesn’t have a ball bearing inside the can.
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Does the ruling state anything about handheld paint sprayers? I couldn’t find anything, but also admit that it is very possible that i missed something
No idea. The only way to know for sure is to wait for someone to let us into the locked expansion room and read through the (probably hundreds) of pages of fire code to be sure (as Rich above In this thread). I personally do not plan to do that since I don’t use spray paint at DMS, but I’m also not a fan of being told to follow a rule with zero backup. I feel like a lot of our 1900 members probably feel the same. Future lesson here is if our directors do speak to a city official and are told we can or cant do something, maybe ask where that rule lives so it can be cited.
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is there a way that we can talk to the fire marshal directly and ask for a ruling/exception/what we would need in order to be able to do this?
Probably, but you will need BOD approval to do so if you intend to reference DMS. Otherwise there’s no rule about calling and asking anonymously.
Come on in. I am at the Makerspace daily Monday thru Friday from 9 AM till about 4:30 PM. Several other people have a key to that office as well. Remember, I am a volunteer as well as a lot of other folks.
You will need permission from the Board of Directors to contact any City official on behalf of DMS. Currently I am the main contact with the Fire Marshall.
The Fire Marshall has already been approached on this subject matter. The Fire Marshal has said “No spray painting is allowed at the Dallas Makerspace”. I strongly suggest that you do not try to buck the system, accept that decision at face value. The answer is no, the Board of Directors has accepted that answer and every member of DMS should too. Do your spray painting at home or some other place, DMS is a business and the rules are different.
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