Next Welding Class?

Metal Shop
#41

TBJK: while not answering when next Welding class is - can answer part of Honorarium portion.

Finance Committee input into the new Honorarium process (which should be a great improvement by what I’m hearing discussed) will have the instructor declare whether they are to receive it personally or designate a committee at the time the class is requested for approval. This is a change from the current/prior practice of electing payment AFTER the class is taught so as to avoid any potential tax liability.

It is my understanding that request for personal payment vs all to a committee at the end of the process was to avoid biasing the approvers decisions - a commendable idea that looks at merits of class only.

However, IRS rules interpreting when income accrues, is earned, and is entitled to an individual is when you have the right to get it: e.g. the decision not to take it after accruing right to it is merely a directed personal donation from earned income (read taxable) to DMS. By declaring you don’t want it before any work is performed (you haven’t yet earned entitlement to payment) you are merely volunteering labor so no taxable event occurs.

I know it looks like semantics but there is a significant difference under tax law between forgoing before entitled to payment and directing it after you earn it … e.g. United Way contribution deducted from paycheck at work, you are taxed on income and then can deduct donation. If you volunteer at a UW event no income inputed to you.

If you’ll teach a welding class that would be Great! Also, do you know where the flow meter/regulator for the He tank for the TIG welder is? Need to see if the new tank has been delivered and can start weldi g with it. @LeeCJones

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#42

Just double checking what you meant and what I’d understood. I had understood the He was for the high altitude balloon project, I thought, and we were using CO2 for MIG. The flow meter/regulator should still be attached to the Millermatic 252 (I would think, the last time I looked at it last week, I did not notice)…
(not technically pertinent, but to my understanding, the MIG is generally used on straight CO2, the TIG on 25/75 Argon/CO2, and the He was specifically for the HAB project, i.e. not to be used for welding, though technically feasible)

Thank you for elaborating on the taxes thing. It sounds like right now the way to avoid the taxes issue is to not collect honorarium. Shame, in my opinion, when people don’t collect it, but I understand. What is the schedule on the new process you mentioned, if you know?

#43

TiG uses He not Argon or mixed. While Argon is noble gas like He the plasma arc has different characteristics.

The tank on the Sync 351(?) used for TIG has He. But nothing connected to bottle so not sure it has been swtched out.

#44

Mig is most common C25 for steel, pure argon for aluminum. But CO2 is sometimes used with steel depending on machine and desired weld profile. (Or cost) TIG is usually pure argon for all processes, though helium is good for specialty welding and getting more penetration on Aluminum.

There are also some specialty mixes for stainless steel MIG.

#45

It’d be keen if Lee or Chuck (@dallasmagna) weighed in.
I recall specifically during the training classes with Lee that the He was off limits as it was for the HAB project.

The manual for the Millermatic 252 (TIG) mentions CO2 specifically.

MIG_gas.png990×680 177 KB

The manual for the Syncrowave 351 (TIG) specifically mentions Argon.

TIG_gas.png979×652 82.9 KB

Although I know other gasses may be used for specific reasons, He among them, it was my understanding that the He in the Metal Shop is not for use as a welding gas.

#46

Unfortunately my experience with TIG is rather limited. While I have TIG I have not used it enough to teach. I am definitely not quite qualified for TIG.

#47

That’s news to me!

Edit: We will need He (~$150 worth?), but unless someone else went and got some for us without telling me, it’s not ours.

#48

Also as I have read & heard 100% CO2 creates deeper weld penetration. I have only MIGed with 75/25 & 100% argon. The argon made a green arc from what I remembered on steel. ( it was all I had at the time) I’ve done aluminum as well with the MIG. That sure takes practice.

#49

I know in aerospace all we used on parts I worked with was Helium. Of course it all tended to be Aluminum, Titanium, various stainless Stainless or high Nickel and Chrome based steel alloys. That or weird alloys with other exotic elements. Also produced very clean welds. For non flying products, such as tooling, all kinds of lower cost methods used and large steel welds got better penetration with other methods with fewer passes.

Small thin stuff was usually laser or electron beam.

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#50

Re honorarium

You’ll need to confirm, but I’m pretty sure there is a threshold amount before there is any liability (ex $600 but CHECK).

I’ve been teaching two spinning/fiberarts classes a month (all made) since last October. I typically do the split thing so it’s $100 a month to me more or less, part covering my membership. Just did a few classes essentially before last year’s end, so that’s moot and apparently didn’t reach the liability threshold. But for this year, I’ve just now been requested to sign the W-9 form. I don’t think I’m accrued to the threshold quite yet, but it’s imminent given my typical pace.

Anyway, check with the powers that be and they can fill you in…but the takeaway is that you could theoretically do a few classes as currently structured and not hit the threshold of necessitating a W-9. Even if you donate both halves to the department. And by the time it becomes necessary for potential W-9, the structure could have changed since it sounds like it’s in the works now.

The main reason I’m throwing this out is the department benefits from your honorariums.

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#51

$600 is where the 1099 reporting kicks in. There is no exclusion on self reporting and paying. Technically you owe your marginal tax rate on all money you have the option of keeping, spending on membership, or donating to the space.

#52

IRS rules REQUIRE if it’s $600 or more, but we can require it of anyone we pay since we don’t know what the amount will be by year’s end. Then we have to chase down people in order to comply.

It only needs to be filed once with DMS unless you change the mailing address listed or the W-9, which is where the 1099, if required, will be sent.

So we are requiring it up front - we are paying the current honorariums and attaching the request for the W9 with a per-addressed DMS PO box envelop (DO NOT DROP OFF AT DMS - this is for your security of the SSN) but will delay future payments until received. That or we can do 28% withholding which we have no desire to do at all.

David Kessinger - Finance Committee

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#53

Ah, that’s smart. Wasn’t sure if it was a threshold or what, and me or everyone (had assumed me since will reach this year but didn’t last year). I think it doesn’t hurt having it on file even if not used. Beats chasing folks later. Appreciate all y’all do (and the headache it can entail) to deal with this stuff. Just mailed mine :slight_smile:

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#54

Yeah. Uncle Sam wants his cut of the return on your aluminum can, or the “proceeds” from your garage sale, though people roughly NEVER actually report those. Another little-known (and highly disregarded) one is coupons. They technically count as income. Anyway, the $600 is when the 'Space is required to report your income from the 'Space to the IRS, regardless of what you do with it (or at least that is MY understanding at this point–but I was mistaken in my original understanding of the whole shebang to start…)

And those semantics @Photomancer mentions? The guv’ment is ALL ABOUT those! (as is accounting, and rightfully so…)

So, with all that, I understand Tim’s stance on just not bothering. I don’t agree, but I understand. And encourage it if it gets some classes taught!
:slight_smile:

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#55

This has been an interesting discussion. And yes to whatever helps welding classes. I’ve gotten chatty with a few of my renfair customers and told them about all the stuff at DMS and several perked up when I mentioned welding.

So obviously the change that’s in the wind in how the honorarium form will be changed will benefit some who might have hesitated because of tax reasons (gonna say that the it might look complicated reading honorarium process, but In practice it is pretty easy to do).

Any eta on this change? Just curious.

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#56

Thanks for hijacking the discussion guys :stuck_out_tongue:

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#57

I know the tax liability is important to a few but i just want to learn welding quickly. I really could care less whether it’s a DMS class or a private instructor. I have projects that are still in hold and I’m not seeing a light at the end of the tunnel.

My main purpose for joining makerspace was to learn welding and complete projects. We seem to have more than enough interest to form a class. Let get this party started.

Todd W

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#58

cross-populating so all the folks who’ve expressed interest (in this thread) get notified that some have been posted:

I don’t see them on the calendar yet, but hopefully soon…

#60

For those not in the other welding class thread, safety, MIG, and TIG classes are now posted on the events board.

#61

Just a bump; hoping for some more MIG classes to come along and hope the ones that have been scheduled and booked are going well!