More Money More Instruction

DMS General
#71

Beth’s concern is why I don’t think simply reducing or eliminating tours will not get us where we need to be. With a two year lease, we are not moving for another 700 members (assuming David’s growth rate continues. I would argue that we are already at facility max.

Creating a fixed cap, with a waiting list is, IMO, our best solution for dealing with maintaining a static membership until we have the facilities to grow again. This would also serve to discourage members to work on a project, then let their membership lapse. Since letting your membership lapse moves you to the bottom of the waiting list.

The other advantage of this system is it will eliminate those customers who are only joining to finish a specific project, or those who only pay for membership for their occasional projects. At the same time it effectively caps the need for key training to a much smaller and more consistent number of members wanting training. We can tell people up front, you can expect x weeks for this training, y weeks for this training, etc.

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#72

I feel that part of the demand for woodshop basics is driven by shows
on PBS like Yankee Workshop and others. Folks have some idea of
what all they can do with the tools in the wood shop

We need a way to get new folks excited about othe area, A lot of older folks dont have
any idea what all the laser can do or the 3 D printers or other wonderful tools, Kee is
ecpanding our idea with his classess with the scanner, I took one the other day, and now
I am planning ot taking 3
d calls, I bet if take others of his I will want other classes, I intend to take more of them

Slowing the demand will help, but lets fix the problem also, It will take multiple efforts to do
that

Now I need to do my part and put up some classless

#73

I completely agree. Safety should be #1 priority as well as proper use of our equipment.

I will definitely be attending the committee meetings.

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#74

Totally disagree with your characterization of who and why members become Chairs. Chairs get elected because they’ve been involved in the committee area and shown interest in it being successful. Members in the committee recognize that and that’s why they are voted in. Most put in a lot of hours and effort to keep their areas running, a fair amount of time is shifted from their personal Making to supporting other Makers - or as I like to phrase it for all the Chairs and volunteers as helping Making Makers.

I doubt any of the Chairs would agree with “[T]hey don’t actually do much work.” This is probably news to them, curious how many current Chairs, former Chairs or members agree with this?

  • Popularity? Often elected because the prior Chair has burned out and others are very hesitant or are willing to step-up due to the commitment of time.
  • Are some Chairs more successful than others? Yes.
  • Ego boosting affirmation of popularity and self? None in my experience.
  • Sense of contributing to the success of DMS? Yes, and they and all our volunteers should feel that way because it is TRUE and why we are as massively successful as we are. Perfect, No.
  • Growing and evolving as an organization, Yes.
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#75

You are going to start losing more than that if we can not get the training on machines we joined to use perhaps you should discount membership until a person reaches 6 certifications

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#76

Setting a number would just allow abuse of a system giving someone an ongoing discount because they couldn’t get that last certification (on something they have no interest in).

Sure the system as is could use improvements, and there is a lot of discussion and some movement. But it really isn’t that hard to get into these classes. And I have seen several occasions when trainers have offered non-scheduled one-on-one instruction.

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#77

or you could go pay MORE at a tool shop. Seriously, there is already someone waiting to take your slot.

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#78

what a great attitude for a chairperson

#79

yep, it is.
…

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#80

I don’t mind paying if the classes are avaiable

#81

Shouldn’t one of the responsibilities of a committee be to provide adequate access to at least the basic classes that are required to use the tools. If they want to to drum up in-house instructors, cool. If not they could use part of budget to hire outside insructors as suggested at the top of this thread. if DMS is funding a committee, providing space, whatever, for a committee and its tools, it seems to me that group should provide adequate classes.

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#82

you’re not wrong but the old addage that 90% of the work is done by 10% of the people still applies. In a committee with ‘supposed’ 100+ people we only have about 6 that have stepped up to teach. it is a sad state to say the least but it is also the reality. we are addressing it by getting everything online but unfortunately that is a 6 month project.

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#83

I understand the 90/10 rule and I thank you for stepping up what I did not appreciate is when you suggested for me go go some where else and it’s ok there will be some to take my place which I is sure is true and when I said that was a great way for chair person to be you stated it sure was I’m not sure if you reply to everyone like this or if your just a little burnt out so you are also saying it may be six months before this is resolved?

#84

Not everyone wants or needs a bunch of the cerficate dlasses
I have been a member for over 2 years and I don t thin I have 6 certificates

and I teach classes also

I joined because we had a rolling mill! not for lasers or machine shop, Machine shop
has a lot of classes, not like one a month, If you want to take some kind of a class at a
community collerge you have to wait until they are available, Here you can take other classes
while you wait

#85

What about the idea of committed being responsible for proving classes. Hire an outside instructor if the have to and their group pays for it. It doesn’t make sense to me to continue continue funding a group that won’t offer sufficient basic instruction.

#86

I think you are missing the point here, they offer training, I can t afford for my dues to
go up to pay for a few pro teachers

Our great strength is that we are all volunteers, I hear that told to every tour, I tell the
folks I talk to

I am more in the arts area, but If I want to take a pottery class at the Dallas Craft Guild,
I have to wait until one is offered and then I pay a much higher fee and even studio tiem, I like what we are doing, it is working Maybe not as well as we want it to, but it wordk sell
You can get a hamburger at Micky Ds quickly but if you want to eat in
a fine restaurant you may have have to wait days and eve weeks for a
reservation,

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#87

The point is, some committees don’t offer enough classes. I too don’t want my dues to go up, and didn’t suggest it.

#88

Sarcasm and is not directed at you. This has all been hashed out many times.

Please go find an outside instructor willing to teach total noobs machining. Oh yeah, it is in 6 parts and 4 hours each and every weekend. And by the way we are willing to pay you $50. And we don’t pay your expenses or buy you lunch or doing anything to support you.

There is a model for this and it is called TechShop. Membership $150+ per month, classes $125-$400 each.

Our system warts and all is $50 month and classes from Free-$50. Plus you have to either be engaged in the workings of a committee or watch the calendar like a hawk.

FYI, even then we spend about $1500-$2000 per week paying class honorariums.

I only casually know @nicksilva myself but he has always been a great guy to me. Consider that you caught him at a particularly frustrating moment and give him the benefit of the doubt. I know I have had similar frustrations on both sides. But this is our Makerspace and we can all work to make it better.

Welcome to DMS

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#89

This is one of the most persistent topics regarding governance that still doesn’t make sense to me. The situation does ebb and flow based on leadership in different areas. The more restriction there is on using a tool, the higher the barrier will be to finding those who will train on it - and on having those who can train approved.

A sense of ownership in different areas/for different tools is both a blessing and a burden. It generally keeps the tools maintained, but it also keeps the number of people who are approved to use those tools low. How it gets leveled out is probably a management study worthy of a college course. All I know is that a year after my first introduction to DMS, it’s still very confusing and doesn’t feel like it’s improved.

Woodshop is the exception. Maybe we should figure out what woodshop is doing right and try to model after them? They put a great number of people on their tools. (Excluding the CNC router and lathes from that group even though they are in the room.) Science is also doing some very cool stuff right now. I think that’s because of the change in chair and the ease in which entry to teaching can be made in that area.

At risk of being smacked, perhaps it’s fair to have performance standards for chair people. If you don’t have x number of training opportunities in your area given y number of tools that require training, then you can’t have another chair position for z months. Or your budget gets reduced mid-term.

But then, that all goes back to how chairs are elected. I never expected the room to fill up prior to a chair vote only to be told that everyone who shows up for that vote is considered on the committee and has a voice in choosing the chair position - even if it overrides the people who have done the work on that committee over the past six months or those listed as committee members on the wiki. That is why I made the statement about popularity. Members who are honest about the governance problems at DMS know exactly what I mean. It’s fact; not my opinion.

#90

No smack needed, you make a fair point. But this would end up with lots of committees having no chair at all!

I tossed in some pretty good $$$ to buy the HAAS and even then I’m not trained to use it. I do not know the exact number of people certified to use the HASS but I bet it is under 50.

Most people’s expectations of what it takes to safely operate the HAAS are pretty off. It’s not just model something, mount your stock and press go. Training is certainly something we need to continue to figure out.

What I generally object to is people expecting a service level like McDonalds. I paid my money now where is it? This is a failure on our part in not setting the proper expectations for new members.

If their expectation is on demand training on any tool at any time one-on-one, then I suggest an increase in their membership to cover having professional instructors to train them. This member said they would not mind paying for classes if they were available. Ok, how about $300?

See, if we did that then people would say but I already paid my $50. Vicious circle!

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