More Money More Instruction

Levels for different memberships based on tool certifications? If you want access to CNC router, HAAS machine (I’m sure there are more than two, but I’m working quickly here…) then your membership is $70 a month once you are certified to use to those machines. Funnel that money back to the expensive machines in order to support them. Or, start charging per use for some machines and again send the money back.

There’s a logical, methodical way to work this out. It will take more than a couple of committee cycles to figure it out, though. And it will require some changes. DMS isn’t always big on change. :wink:

You would be correct, with change to spare. At the first two years I was a member about six new people were authorized. Bringing the total to about 20. The prior 14 were ‘grandfathered’.

However, with the new training Nick and I developed, we have seen a drastic increase in the number of people who are making their domino and also doing a follow-up project. At least one of which has already been HAAS authorized. I would not be surprised to see the six authorizations in the preceding 2.5 years doubled by the end of the year.

May not sound like much, but the amount of learning the student has to do to get even a basic skill set is enormous. And much of it can’t be ‘taught’, it requires people with some internal self-starting. Something that seems to be relatively rare.

3 Likes

What about setting up lab times for some equipment. Lab time means a trained operator available for one off projects, but does not equal training. Lab stipends paid similar to teaching.

1 Like

I have no problem with going with an outside instructor if those members wanted expedited classe are willing to pay for the class fee. We’re getting push back on $5 fees that help prevent no shows. I’d guess instructor time would be about $50/hr, so a 3 hour class would be $150. Can’t imagine how many would sign up for say the Haas class, that has about 15 hours of class time plus test time (tests alone would cost you $75 to $100 since it is one-on-one). So for Wood Shop that would be $30 per student for a 5 student (if the class were filled, if only 3 then $50). The $50 honorarium could cold applied towards the $150 reducing the cost reducing it to $20. These folks would help reduce the backlog in the regular classes.

Committees do get stipends every month: these primarily cover the cost maintenance and repair. Machine Shop gets $500/mo and is going through about 2 bands saw blades a month at about $75 a pop, cold Cut Saws are lasting about 4 months and are $160, so call it $40/mo Those two alone amount to $190/mo or about 40% of the $500/month we get. We just bought $900 in replacement cutters, spread that out over about 4 months and that’s another $225/month, now up to $415/mo. Add in normal repairs, coolants, oils, lost-broken-abused-stolen tools and the $500 is gone. Nothing left for instructors. Classes and honorariums fulfill two things: motivates/thanks to people to teach and allows committees to fund those things that the stipend doesn’t cover. Paid instructors would have to follow the Tech Shop model: you pay the cost.

I often see this: New Member joins, they want a class now. The class may have just been held before they joined so there’s delay. Not sure how to avoid this until more people step up to teach.

One of the improvements I’d like to see is a reservation queue system added to calendar. You can sign-up and be put on a wait list. When the next class comes up, you get 24-36 hours to accept or your place in the queue expires and you go back to the end of the queue and next person is notified. Basically sort of an automated standby list. Yes, you might not like the day or time, but you’d be able to not have to watch the calendar like a hawk so you’re at no disadvantage compared to now.

Another advantage is, we’d see how much pent up demand there is.

Another problem when there aren’t a lot of instructors. Folks complain about the date time the classes are held. I sympathize with that - but instructors are volunteers and their schedule/availability is going to control, that’s just the way it is. Many don’t even take the honorarium - they schedule when they can make it to teach.

There is also a big constraint most members are unaware of unless you teach: getting a class room. Often I have to teach on a day when I can get a classroom that’s available, not when I want it because they are scheduled - that I have to move it out a week or two. If there are any ideas on how to alleviate this, I’d like to hear it.

Some have suggested eliminating Events during prime hours so class rooms are available for just classes. Not sure how well that would be received, not very well would be my guess as these add much enrichment to the Maker Space experience.

2 Likes

Please site actual committees in this case (name not required) otherwise it is bullshit.

8 Likes

No sarcasm taken. My specific suggestion was not in any way similiar to what you described. Here’s the scenario:
if a funded committee is receiving funding, then it should be their responsibility to provide enough classes to satisfy the entry level, basic class that is required to gain access to their equipment. Not multiple course, or advanced classes. If that situation doesn’t exist then disregard the suggestion.

To be very clear, I am not the poster who mentioned Nick Silva. Not sure if you thought so (i get confused on Talk threads if a reply is to me, the group or both). In any case, appreciate the reply.

Maybe no more new tools until you provide entry level training opportunities?

The problem is not that there aren’t entry level training opportunities, it’s that those opportunities are Full, and Still Full, and, oh, yeah Full Again.

2 Likes

I should have said sufficient quantities of the entry level opportunities.

1 Like

The sad part is I worked out a deal with the professor at Eastfield College to waive the prerequisites for the 16 Saturdays CNC class using the HAAS. Came out to $260 for 96 hours of machining time. So there was the chance for the outside instruction and ZERO took advantage of it. now they have to put up with me.

FYI - outside machining time would otherwise run $200/hr.

6 Likes

Re popularity: Infrastructure. Last election.

Re: not being able to do the work, current CA arrangement. Heart is definitely in the right place. Availability not so much.

I said some. I did not say all.

A coordinated vision across committees would be such a good thing.

1 Like

She is a citizen / soldier, and is deployed. If that is a problem for you or anyone else - please feel free to leave my country not just the makerspace…
What are you doing to remedy the issue in CA ? (If anything - that is great)

Infrastructure? is better now than it ever has been and has more folks involved and working together - again, are you helping or are you (and other newer folks that just watch from the sidelines) just on TALK ?

The bottom line is there are “members” that are either part of the solution or are part of the problem - which are you?(there is not middle ground here)

8 Likes

And she was given the position because no one wanted to stand in her way. Her service the to Guard is admirable. That was not the point. That CA is a whopper of a job as chair with someone who is much unavailable was the point. Would others be willing to take the spot? You bet. But no one will unless she resigns it first. Thou shalt not rock the DMS hierarchy.

This is the way it always ends, by the way. An outsider has an idea, so the outsider can go to hell. Time and time again newcomers are told to butt out when they try to help. Even trying to hang a broom in a different location can earn a death stare. (Yes. That happened.)

I’ll be back in a few weeks. With any luck, enough stuff will be working that I can accomplish a few makes. After a couple of months if the classes are still unavailable or tools are down, I’ll walk away.

That sums up what I asked earlier - you come to the space only to “make” not help - and your banter on TALK is mostly to slam the Space.
I’ve been a member for a short 25 months, and don’t have time to take every class available but I don’t whine because I can’t print something to make my $50 worth every penny or bitch because a class isn’t offered right after I walk in the door or complain that there are other fees associated with the membership that weren’t mentioned on the tour.

Cry me a river

2 Likes

I tried. You have no intentions of being objective in this discussion. I thanked you for changing the acrylic window on the sandblaster. Did you ever thank me for screening the media over and over again when others wouldn’t? Nope. Give me a high five for picking up in CA every single time I entered that room? Any of the times I took out the trash to the back dumpster? Nah. Mention how cool it was to have a DMS campout after such a long dry spell? Didn’t think so. Recognize how good the laser scrap area looked for a couple of weeks when I took on that job? Gosh. If you did, I must not have heard it. I like DMS, but I have pretty decent boundaries. When it isn’t worth the heartache, I’ll walk away.

That printer, working at the tour I took, was down for months just after that. The fees are an ongoing problem as they are not well-conveyed at sign up. (Ask someone about how much short they are in buying canvas for that printer because people aren’t paying as expected.) And the lack of classes? Well that’s what got us to this discussion, isn’t it. (Note to new people reading. Never, ever complain about DMS. This is where you end up.)

BTW, when you push back so hard, you kind of prove my point that the chair positions are about the personality who fills them, not the ability of that person to do the job.

1 Like

if by objective you mean you want someone to thank you every time you pick up a bit of trash or put a tool away or the like - you are right

Cindy,
How many classes have you held?

Realistic note:
For the new members and or recent - READ the website, the wiki, the calendar, etc and you’ll find information not included in the 45 minute tours (no one wants an 4 or 5 hour tour to cover every square inch of the Space and or every “what if” question). For those that cannot take the time to READ then come to the space on tour night and ask additional questions.

2 Likes

will the HAAS thing with eastfield be available next semester? I was considering it but got lost in making stuff…

1 Like

I have not taught on the DMS schedule. I probably never will. I don’t want to submit a W-9. I did arrange the campout. I taught a couple of girls to sew in a small workshop one evening that was arranged through the CA Facebook page. I scheduled a polymer clay class that fell through when we all got sick.

Too bad I can’t be a real member by just taking out the trash when it’s needed. Now I have to have taught something. It’s called moving the goalpost and an indication that you are losing ground as you continue to argue.

1 Like

I won’t know for a while. Each of the two profs have a fixed number of hours they can do and are split between 6 different classes. so it depends on what is the priority for that semester. I’ll revisit it in a couple of months.

3 Likes

I propose we draw a line on October 10 and freeze the membership level. People could join only if someone has left. (I’d freeze the membership level today if we didn’t have Open House coming up …)

It doesn’t sound like we’re doing a good job meeting the expectations of new members, and in order to do so, we would have to re-evaluate our commitment to existing members.

This is both a training and an equipment capacity issue - more training classes means less equipment availability (i.e., during the time period of the classes).

If we found a magic way to offer all the training that people want, then the machines would always be occupied with training (for example, imagine holding Woodshop Basics every Saturday and every Sunday afternoon).

Open House is likely to bring us more new members that we can’t adequately service. Existing members already can’t get the training they desire. This situation is likely to get worse as we head into the holidays and (a) volunteer trainers are consumed by normal life and (b) DMS demand increases as people make their holiday goodies.

If we froze membership, we could re-evaluate the situation again in the future - January for instance.

8 Likes