Hey everyone, I’m looking for someone experienced with owning/operating built motors (Subarus are a plus). I just got a built motor with forged internals and am looking for guidance and tips on monitoring everything. After receiving the car back freshly tuned, Ive been wanting to go over everything mechanically and make sure it looks sound before I go out and do any track or autoX days.
I want to get it up on the lift this Sunday if I can!
“Built motor” is such a nonsense term. Do you have a list of installed parts and their measured clearances? What’s been done to tune the engine? What supporting modifications have been done to the fuel and electrical systems? Knowing all of that will inform what to watch for and how to properly maintain it. Even with builds where everything is identical, but one block is a closed deck EJ and the other is a later open-deck EJ, will inform different maintenance requirements.
EDIT: Also, who assembled the motor? Most of the reputable performance shops in the area will have a lot of repeat business and they’ll have a lot of insight into what to keep your eye on.
I have all the blueprints and everything and have been very thorough with my research and information gathering. It is just a lot to type out here on my phone right now. It was built and tuned by AWDTuning and is running speed density on ethanol (flex fuel). I’m looking to open a discussion about built EJ motors and oiling concerns as well as health monitoring and general inspection. I’m actually heading up to the space right now.
You’ll want an EGT, and boost gauge at bare minimum.
Datalogging would be nice.
I’m assuming they already spec’d you with good tires, brakes and suspension too.
What did they use to tune your engine?
P.S. Pretty serious set up you got there. 
I’ve done all of the ‘spec’-ing, they just built and tuned the long block.
Tuned with Cobb AccessTuner on a mustang Dyno. I have boost, oil pressure,
wideband AFR, and oil temp as well as the Zeitronix multi gauge high res
datalogger and the accessport for datalogging. I need someone with
expertise to help me get a good baseline of health from logging.
Get an EGT, that will be one of the most helpful gauges you will ever have.
I’ve got experience in tuning Subarus on pump gas on Dynapacks.
You’ve got boost control too, I assume?
Here’s a favorite of mine that I got to work with. It was a daily drive too.
P.S. Excuse the low res photo.
Would love to see your car.
Sounds bad ass.
Yes I have boost control. Ive wanted to get an EGT sensor (already have a
datalogging input for it) but couldn’t bring myself to weld a bung into the
primary collector of my exhaust manifold because it was really expensive.
As far as asking about what I have installed, you would probably save time
asking what was not installed. Everything in the engine bay is aftermarket
except the intake manifold, the cam shafts, and like, the alternator lol.
I would love for you (and anyone interested) to come look at it as well!
The main reason I started this thread was to get a second set of eyes on my
build. I am worried that the builders made some mistake or uninformed
decision because of a few things…
They gave it back after the build with 10w-40 Amsoil in it. I felt that
warm idle oil pressure was lower than what I’ve researched (14-16psi @
900rpm, 185°F idle). Also, the oil pump was leaking from the seal. I told
them this and in order to make good on the build, they removed the extra
shim they added to the oil pump bypass and resealed the housing… After
getting the car back again on Saturday, I went to inspect everything last
night and there is still small amounts of oil coming from behind the timing
belt cover in the same place (I’m a little upset).
Research has led me to believe that although my idle oil PSI is low, it is
spiking too high during normal driving and is blowing seals. I’m not sure
what could cause this. The main and rod bearing clearances seem great so
maybe it is because they’re using the 11mm oil pump even though I’m single
AVCS…
Just want input and to maybe gain some Subie friends as well!
Is it expensive because of the labor costs involved to take off the manifold?
Perhaps someone in metal shop can help put it on?
I’d make notes of your concerns and observed issues to take the information back to them and let them address it.
Is this them? Cool build options they have.
What car is this in?
This thread is useless without pics. (And specs!)
As an aside, if a part the engine builder installed is leaking, make them fix it, and if they won’t, let the internet know because that’s some BS. A fresh motor shouldn’t leak.
Yep, that’s them! Really nice people but super busy shop. They had my car
for 5 months!
I have no problem with doing all the work on my car (save for
assembling/blueprinting the engine) so I would be fine removing the
manifold. It’s just that the manifold costs $1,500 and has a warranty and I
don’t want to have to send the part back to the manufacturer for them to
weld so I can maintain the warranty.
Trust me, I have a huge list of items of concern and I have been talking
with the shop constantly. I just cant ever trust something that wasn’t
built by my own hands without many hours of thorough inspection.
I normally wouldn’t have any issues bringing it back to them but the
mechanical work is a little messy and this would be the second time I’ve
had to bring it back to them for the same oil issues.
For the amount of money I happily threw into this build, I am expecting
everything to be in perfect mechanical shape.
P.S. Keith Fields, the owner and tuner at AWDTuning is a great man and
excellent tuner. The tune I have been running is spot-on and runs great. My
only concerns lie with the mechanical experience of their engine builder
with concerns focused on proper oiling strategies based on various engine
clearances. So far there is no way for me to verify the soundness of the
mechanical work other than the fact that the car appears to run well.
Pics coming soon.
I will include some shots of the car as well as some dyno sheets.
I am hesitant to post their blueprints because it is their tailored “formula” but would be happy to discuss them privately (PM or in person at DMS).
I will also post some pics relating to the mechanical concerns I have.
Blueprints schmooprints. There’s no magic sauce. But knowing, for example, what the piston to wall clearance is, as well as the type of pistons used, is critical in informing oil viscosity and makeup. Tight clearances will require lower-viscosity oil with higher shear strength, whereas wider clearances will call for a high-viscosity oil that doesn’t break down readily from blow-by gases. That information will also help determine reasonable oil change intervals.
For example, my CA18DET has measured piston to wall clearances of .005" on an iron block with CP forged pistons. My bottom end assembler (Alamo Autosports) and I have worked out that 5W40 is the most appropriate oil weight for the application, since the clearances are left wide to account for expansion under relatively high boost for this engine application. Conversely, a high-compression NA KA24DE would be much happier with .002" clearances and 5W30 or 5W20 oil. A similar conversation took place regarding the bearing clearances, since my crank needed a decent amount of polishing.
As an aside, I don’t hold that EGT monitoring is critical for most builds. If your engine builder knew your power goals and put it together without EGT provisions, especially if he works with the tuner, he knew what he was doing. I will say, however, an accurate electronic oil pressure gauge is critical, and an oil temperature gauge would not go amiss. Obviously, a boost/vac gauge is important, but make sure the boost portion goes at least 5psi above your planned peak. For datalogging, keep an eye on short term and long term mixture monitors- I imagine you’ve got a wideband O2 sensor.
I also assume you’re running an EJ of some kind. With that in mind, is your tune failsafed for coolant temp? Even well-built EJs will sometimes lose a coolant jacket seal, especially on the open deck engines, and aluminum is not forgiving of any amount of overheating.
All in all, I’ve generally heard good things about AWDTuning and I know the tunes they put together are top notch. I’m just wary since you’ve said they built the motor and it’s leaking oil. That suggests the mechanical workmanship was subpar, and short of detonation, nothing kills an engine faster than an oiling issue.
So would you be willing to go over some oil pressure logs with me? the datalogger is extremely high resolution and I am observing all types of pressure oscillations that i need to know are normal or not.
Briefly adding some more detail, my PTW clearances are all .0040" with JE Pistons (offset wrist pins). Rods are .0020", .0020", .0022", .0020". Mains are .0013" - .0018". I have all the gauges and monitoring capabilities you mentioned and always monitor short and long-term learned fueling trims (seem good). Yes, the engine is a built EJ257 shortblock with EJ255 heads (single AVCS).
They originally recommended Amsoil Premium 10w-40 but after I brought it back complaining about low oil pressure, they were saying the main oil pump seal had a small leak and they bumped me to Amsoil Dominator 15w-50 and got my idle pressures up (seems counter intuitive if i am blowing oil seals). Lo and behold, I am about to bring it back to them with more oil leaks. OH BOY
Best to have them resolve it rather than have to take it elsewhere to get fixed.
Have you discussed the issue with owner/tuner?
Oh yes, it has been thoroughly discussed. I will be bringing the car to
them this week and will post back after I get some information so stay
tuned!
Will definitely “stay tuned”. 
How is your log data stored? Are you able to export it to .csv? If so, I’d love to take a look, if only out of pure curiosity.
With those clearances, 10W40 sounds like a good choice. I’d be tempted to play with 5W40 for better cold pumping, but the engine is a flat 4 so my gut says the slightly goopier-when-cold 10W40 is probably the better choice. Have you considered MOTUL oil? The guys at Alamo recommend it over Amsoil, and one of them daily drives his big-power bugeye on it. Of course, if you’re leaking, get that fixed first, but the Alamo guys all stand by MOTUL holding up better and their engines running happier on it.
Disclaimer: Alamo Autosports is a dealer for both Amsoil and MOTUL products, though they distribute very near cost on everything they sell.
So after speaking with my tuner last night and deliberation on some research I had done, we decided that we are going to try out the 10mm (85psi relief valve, -30% flow) oil pump instead of the 11mm one (75psi release valve, +30% flow) since I am getting high oil pressure spikes and seals are leaking. I will have them properly touch up the relief valve surfacing as well since they are known to have problems from the aluminium casting process. Maybe I’ll have them replace the stock timing belt as well. The shop has been extremely helpful and assure me that if my engine were to fail from any of these things that they would cover the cost of replacement 100%. They are very good at assuaging my fears.
We are going to try and target a viscosity of 10w or 5w-40. I have always preferred Motul 8100 X-cess 5w-40 and plan to use that or the Joe Gibbs Driven 5w-40. I don’t see why a 10w would be more beneficial. I would even want to try a 0w-40 or 0w-50 true synthetic if possible (none of that stuff that is secretly lower weight oil with VI additives, but a true 40 or 50 weight).
About the logs… I have CSV data from my Accessport, but that doesn’t include oil pressure. AFR, Boost, Oil Pressure, and RPM are logged with the Zeitronix datalogger and stored in a ZDL file (can be exported as CSV). As a software engineer I can tell you that the software for it is… antiquated at best. 
That being said, it gets the job done pretty well and is super simple so i suggest viewing the log data that way. Send me a PM and I can get you the logs since the system wont let me attach them here.
P.S. Does anyone know a good application geared for automotive that can take CSV data and graph it out? I know I can set up macros for this in excel but that is a pain and not very intuitive.
Just a gut feeling on the oil. A 10W is purportedly a bit thicker when cold than a 5W, which in theory should help it stick to the bottom of the cylinder between cold starts, which is when the majority of your cylinder wear in a horizontally opposed engine happens, but then quality synthetics are supposedly the same viscosity at all operable temperatures, so figure that one out.
Anyway, the only application I’ve ever used for graphing and analyzing CSV log data is Excel, and it’s done a good enough job pointing me in the right direction. You’ve got a PM. If you can get me the Zastabeegaiug log data in CSV format, I’ll try and make some sense of it when I get into the office today.
