I have in the past.
But if you reply on calendar on my name or PM me, it goes to my phone and alerts me … like this reply did when I saw it on my phone. Pretty easy, just make an effort. It least you showed you made an effort.
3 Likes
Just as a figure for comparison, my sessions i instruct at my work only average ~65% show up rate overall for 1 hour courses…
The difference being i am compensated as long as 10 show up (dept average is <20, my average is 26+)
Like others have said in the thread, its disheartening, frustating, and other 'ing words.
Do we have big metrics on the courses that cost a nominal charge? Or on possible policy change to disallow refunds of small nomimal costs for cancelations in less than some agreed upon quantity of hours (6,12,18,24+??)
1 Like
My impression is this hasn’t worked reliably (or at all) in years… does your recent experience differ?
And thank you for the analysis of the cancelation window functions.
The instructor can always just require that attendees Zelle or Venmo the $10 and (s)he brings a stack of $10 bills to hand out to those who show up. No accounting / 1099 nightmares here.
I have no experience. I was just trusting what it says. Silly me …
2 Likes
This problem keeps coming up:
Let’s all admit that the experiment has failed. Students are people and people suck. Charging an earnest fee is not working.
We have to try new things:
-
Punitive measures in the form of blacklisting on a wider scale than by individual instructors.
-
A new paradigm: all classes are free except for fees for materials; first come, first served; optional fee to guarantee a seat.
1 Like
I’m not sure about the “free or low cost training model anymore”. It reminds me of the old story of the kid selling lemonade for 5 cents. A man stops by and says, “Kid you need to charge a dollar and you’ll sell a lot more.” The kdi says but my mother says a dollar is too much. The kid changes his pricing and lo and behold he sells out. People that were buying a 5 cent lemonade are thinking it can’t be that good if it is only 5 cents… A $1 lemonade must be a speciala lemondate. (Would be $5 today) Don’t believe me look at the Starbucks model.
Recently, I was told of a blacksmith that was making railroad spike knives and selling them for $30 quite unsuccessfully. He was told he should raise his price to $110, he did, and sold out. Apparently, people thought they must be special knives if they cost $110. BTW: They are very easy to make and for less than $5, too.
I am looking into taking a Damascus class in Colorado Springs. It is a 5 day class for $990, plus the travel costs. Yeah, it is expensive but then the class is limited to five people and it is an intensive class when you learn from a world class instructor. A single piece of Damascus steel can sell for $300-$1000, too.
We have some people here at DMS who are world class instructors, but who essentially teach for next to nothing. The same skills when taught elsewhere woudl be 100s of dollars. A simple blacksmithing classs, for instance, for eight hours is several hundred dollars. Here’s just a few examples:
Blacksmithing Classes in Texas 2022 [Updated]
My point is if you pay several hundred dollars for a class there is a high probability you’ll show up for it.
Sure the class needs to be worth it, but who wants to put together a class, set time aside to teach it, prepare the materials, buy the supplies and then have people bail on the class at the last minute with no consequences? Who’s time is really only worth a few dollars? Most people I know teach either to give something back or to further the goals of DMS not for the honorarium.
How about we take a student’s credit card and charge the students who don’t show double or triple for the class? Maybe $50 would get people to really consider cancelling at the last minute.
I’ve always thought a $10 class cost is nothing. A Starbucks coffee costs more. And $5, it can cost me more than that in tolls and gas to get to DMS…
On another note someone screwed up our induction forge, didn’t leave a note, and now no one can blacksmith inside anymore until we get a new one of fix the current one. But then this is a whole 'nother issue.
3 Likes
“Free” has no value. If there is no cost to signing up for a “maybe I’ll attend” and no consequence for just common courtesy, what’s there to loose?
Having said that, I like that there are a lot of free classes and I think it serves the membership. But there needs to be a consequence for just pissing away a very valuable resource. The worse part is Instructors are saying “I done.”
4 Likes
This is where the required vs something to do vs skill building classes diverge. If we require a class, then they need to be somewhat economical or included with membership. A fun, but loose class can be free or a slight charge. Something that conveys real knowledge and skill is at market rates. The advanced welding classes are proving this out. I have personally paid for many $500 a day, multi day classes. I have also taught classes full of people who’s cost to attend was serious money. Let’s allow the market to decide. We might find this is a great way to drive membership.
Sounds like I’ll just start showing up to full classes in case someone bails 
I just posted how tough it was to get into a woodworking class!
4 Likes
This is a common and often successful strategy. In classes I taught, even if full I would often allow one extra. The problem was when there were two people.
2 Likes
Rock paper scissors? haha!
Three strikes and you can only sign up for standby. It isn’t fair to teachers or to students who are waiting for precious spots to open.
3 Likes
Curious, three strikes based on no-show or cancellation though?
I feel 3 strikes if you cancel maybe 24 hours in advance is a bit “unfair” if we want to call it that. However, I guess it’s up to each instructor to decide their level of fairness.
Anything strike based would need to be applied organization wide.
This is a tricky situation that might not have a nice clean solution. It certainly doesn’t have a no brainer one so far.
I want to see heads on pikes, people. 3 strikes for no call no shows.
2 Likes
What classes have you been teaching recently that have such a high number of no-showing flakes?
I haven’t taught since Covid, but used to be President and worked on the education committee.
At the time it was an issue, and I’ve seen enough frustrated teachers post here since, because they aren’t making honorarium when people no show. As much as we like to think it’s all being done out of the goodness of our hearts, some people use those funds to pay for things like gas to get to the space or dues, among other things like supplies and just their own time being shared. It was always a sticky slope because we had people abusing the system, having random people “sign in” manually for classes they never took and others who were teaching half hour classes of little value. Now that everything is ridiculously expensive, it is the time to really work on teacher appreciation. Because classes get butts in the door at a time when people might be putting their dollars elsewhere.
4 Likes
Also, when I posted the symbol for sarcasm on my original post it did strikethrough, so know Im not calling for actual heads on pikes. Lol
2 Likes
Haven’t taught since COVID, but fwiw, if/when I return to teaching classes, I’d bake in a nonrefundable registration fee that covers class materials (show or no-show). Having skin in the game, class-fee-wise, may contribute to fewer no-shows.
8 Likes