Is Talk the place to address problems with DMS?

DMS General
#6

you are correct - that should be the first tact. But what is the recourse if no action takes place or is ignored because the person at fault is “one of the boys/girls”. In that regard Talk serves as a way of swaying public opinion - whether it is for an upcoming election, for the selection of a replacement or upcoming BoD agenda item. The board reads Talk. It is the duty of the board to do so to guage the mood of the membership. If all of the sudden you start to get a large influx of members that don’t normally use talk get on complaining we would hope they take notice. If everyone is saying “we hate this person for abusing their position” don’t you think they should look into it?

Certainly, in matters that have some confidentiality they should not be discussed here. This thread is related to an issue of abuse and/or bullying. So without a formal complaint I see no problem with people pointing out how “un-excellent” someone is whether it is not cleaning up after themselves or for constantly being a jerk. Both extremes should fit in our little box.

These are mostly locked forums so they do serve to inform or sway members. I’d be more concerned if social media is used more to air our issues which is a likelyhood.

moving on.

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#7

If it’s the right place, then IMO it should be within Members Only.

Opinion vacillates on whether DMS General should or should not be for Members only, and in case it ever opens up again, I’d hate for “problems discussions” to inadvertently go public.

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#8

Well, specifically when the politics got too hard or contentious in the past, the leadership turned off the forum completely or locked it down. We now have members only areas from that occurrence. Members only areas are probably a fine place to discuss DMS’s challenges.

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#9

I think it would be easier and make more sense to email [email protected] instead of hijacking meetings, encouraging people to sue DMS, starting Talk threads and participating in whisper campaigns against volunteers.

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#10

I have mixed opinions. I think that Talk is a suitable place to discuss problems because it’s a good way to get a wide swath of diverse opinions that could lead to solutions. When it is a complaint about a specific individual then IMO it should be addressed to the Board - no more than we would expect a company to publicly discuss HR issues.

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#11

Ah and so the hypocrisy begins.

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#12

Depending on what “problems with DMS” means…

Given general context, I’ll assume what is not meant are the mundane, day-to-day, or incremental improvement discussions, since the TALK Issues forum, and general committee forums are ideal, in fact purpose created, for these.

I’ll also assume what is not meant are the certain interpersonal issues (e.g., harassment) or disciplinary issues (e.g., theft) that come up. It’s clear these are not generally for public discussion, and there is a well-known remedy process for these types of things already in place.

And it should be clear that committee specific suggestions and issues should be discussed and resolved at committee meetings.

So mostly what’s left are the big, hairy, “who are we really,” and “what should we really be as an organization,” and “what is wrong with everyone but me!” types of questions. If not TALK, then what are other options? Board meetings? Nope…those are specifically for conducting business. Member meetings? Nope, we don’t have them anymore due to lack of (take your pick) [ interest | energy | organization | effectiveness | beer ]. Annual member/election meeting? Maybe…but has downside of only occurring once a year.

So what’s left? Probably TALK is all that IS left. Unfortunately TALK is our version of Twitter. The problem, of course, is that anyone can say anything (almost) at any point. And given that when several hundred humans (ugghhh!) get together and are able to interact in a mostly unorganized, undisciplined, ungoverned manner, that situation will have obvious and foreseeable outcomes, i.e. the proverbial “dumpster fire” threads. Think of the kids from Island of “The Lord of the Flies” meet the guys from “Animal House” and have a lot of adult babies and you’ll start to get it.

So TALK is the best place, but none of the big types of issues we need to address will actually ever get settled there…awareness and discussion and debate, yes; policies changed or issues settled, no. Catch-22: the only place to solve these types of things is the place where nothing can get solved.

Mostly what I am saying is things are the way they are here, including on TALK, because that is who/what people are in general and DMS is in particular. By way of explanation via analogy, Churchill once said “Democracy is the worst form of government…except for all the others.” So, human nature is what is, people are who they are, and DMS already is exactly what it really desires to be…

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#13

With @frank_lima, I too find this a funny question coming from you, given previous actions taken directly by you alone.

Giggles aside, I feel the TALK forum is among the most valuable tools of DMS. Yes, it should be a platform for discussion of problems within the DMS. Some feel these should happen behind our pay wall in the members only area. Now that our members have access to that area more freely I would agree it should happen there rather than a fully public area. I find it a total abuse of power to force these conversations off of TALK. As it is our only open communication platform among members and allows for public questioning of the powers that run the DMS and hold a heavy hand in meeting.

Now, should complaints on talk be followed with actions by the BOD, as if they were a formal complaint? The BOD currently sits at NO. This is a good position in my mind as long as all membership understands it. Given the fast and direct nature of TALK, a Flare Up of mass anger can happen too quickly and the hysteria of it lead to irrational results too easily. So if you want the BOD to act on something, I agree with following the formal options of BOD Agenda Items or BOD Formal Complaints.

TALK should be considered the protected communication channel for all members and the impeding, disrupting, or blocking of it should be among the largest concerns of members.

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#14

Begins? That’s a good one. :joy:

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#15

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Resignation of Woodshop Chairman
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#20

You do realize what you are admitting here right?

Anything else you would like to tell us? How about the NDA that never existed or the mysterious penalty???

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#22

Yes, we all have our likes and dislikes with members of the former board, me included, but let’s skip the personal attacks of her and answer the question instead.

Yes. Absolutely. 100%. But when it gets to the point of being a complaint or action being taken against a specific member, that should be a board or committee item to handle and should be reported to the wiki in minutes and to the 86 page if it should go that far.

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#23

When I was new I thought talk was not the place for this because i thought it was airing out dirty laundry. As I have been here longer, i think it is appropriate because it contains a log of what was said and some of the contexts. There were a lot of things I heard about when I joined based off of word of mouth and going back and reading things on talk proves to be a much different story on some of it. It’s also been nice that talk hasnt gone down for “maintenance” lately when difficult topics have been discussed, that or I just havent been on when it has.

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#24

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