Is Ignorance the Problem?

[Owen_Soccer22]

It’s nice to think that the reason that people don’t do what you need them to do, or conform to your standards, or make good choices is simply that they don’t know enough.

After all, if that’s the case, all you’ll need to do is inform them, loudly and clearly.

So, that employee who shows up late: just let him/her know that being late isn’t allowed. Threaten to fire them. That’ll do it.

The thing is, ignorance is rarely the problem.

The challenge is that people don’t always care about what you care about. And the reason they don’t care isn’t that they don’t know what you know.

The reason is that they don’t believe what you believe.

The challenge, then, isn’t to inform them. It’s to engage and teach and communicate in a way that shares emotion and values and beliefs.

[clk75201]

I’ve thought about this a lot the last few weeks. The claims of ignorance and laziness are bantered about on this board. What happened to the age-old idea of mentoring to apprentice?

The other thing that sticks in my mind is an issue I’ve had for years rearing my own creatures. Like the collective IQ at DMS, ours at home is pretty amazing. But it also increases the likelihood of absentminded-professor moments.

I once had to explain the a teacher for one of the kids that if my son were on the same point on the bell curve of mental disadvantage as he is advantage, the state would pay for someone to walk around the school with him and remind him to use the bathroom now and then. There’s no doubt in my mind that intellectually gifted people benefit from the same reminders.

Am I making excuses? Nope. I like walking into a clean workspace, too. But maybe there’s a better way to handle it than complaining about it with such harshness.

[wandrson]

Yep, the problem is clearly that we don’t inform these poor people of such basics as “Don’t leave your partially consumed food containers willy nilly”, or “Please actually read the many signs with the few basic rules we want adhered to”, or “Yes, you really are expected to pay for your laser, 3D printer, … usage”

Perhaps we should start requiring members to provide their mother’s contact information so that we CAN inform their mother’s of what a horrible job they did raising their children?

[Sk8nmike]

Your Mom doesn’t work here is the problem. To many of the younger generation have been helicopter parented to the point were it doesn’t even dawn on them to pick up after themselves or be respectful to others

[wandrson]

I am all for decrying the lack of quality in today’s youth, but from my observations the behavior I described above cross age barriers among our members…

[Photomancer]

It’s not just the helo-kids, but it may be much more common within that group. It’s funny, I’m better about cleaning up and putting away things here than I am at home. If I leave a tool out somewhere at home - I know (usually) where I left it. But not here, the next person expects to see it where it belongs.

But I think I do it more out of courtesy and respect other members rather “it’s about me” mom will do it.

[Bill]

Ignorance is only part of the problem. The other part is apathy.

As the joke goes, “I don’t know and I don’t care.”

[artg_dms]

My post from another thread:

Let’s see…DMS’s nonprofit purpose is education.
That includes social skills.
Including but not limited to how to get along with others, how to civilly debate/spar over topics disagreed upon, cleaning up after yourself (and sometimes others), accepting/adapting to things you cannot/shouldn’t change, leadership skills, exercising authority, being held accountable for your decisions/actions, etc., etc.

For those who had the misfortune of a “incomplete upbringing” or whose schooling left you unprepared to deal w/ the real world, you will learn those skills here. OR you will leave and move on, or be a PIA, or in some cases be banned.

For some, this is a rude reality check. For a few, an extreme rude reality check.
Maybe DMS needs a safe place w/ a comfort animal to hold/pet, a cup of hot chocolate, soothing sounds, etc.
NO, Nope, Nadda, Not going to happen. Hell No.
Grow Up Dammit……

Repeat as needed…

[jswilson64]

It must be apathy. Anecdote: I work at the US’s 4th largest ____ company. We have a technical, educated workforce. Mostly female. There’s probably only 6 or 8 men on my floor of my building. And the condition some of these morons leave the men’s room in after doing “their business” is often horrifying. I can’t imagine leaving my own home’s facilities in that condition. I can only conclude these guys just don’t give a flying F. The issues seen at the 'Space are simply the same attitude (except for when I do something wrong and then it’s just that I’m a moron and forget stuff).

[clk75201]

But then, maybe it’s arrogance - as in nothing is ever good enough. All I know is that the combination of the two is damaging to an organization.

[Cairenn_Day]

I have seen this problem here, just like I saw in Mensa and in the SCA
We tend to be the geeks, the artists and the outsiders from high school,
A lot of us missed developing some social skill in HS, I know I did and I
am still working on the at age 65, I would not surprise me to find that we
have a higher than average number of members that are on the autism spectrum’
I show a lot of symptoms of Asperger s myself, Never diagnosed, I was
diagnosed with ADD when I was over 50,

Now these things are not something to used as excuse, but accepting then
and the problems they generate is part of working around them, It also
means that we need to understand this in ourselves and others,

all that said, gentle reminders can work wonders, A good example, thee
is a huge SCA event every summer in Penn, over 10,000 folks camping
out for over a week, That is LOTS of Port a lets, A huge issue was getting
forks to put the lid done on toilets. There is a reason that there is a vent tube
in each, A row of 15 or 20 of them can get quire gross in the lids are left up.
(they are cleaned once or twice a day) What helped the post was a cute
cartton in each that remided folr to close the lid, I havent been to a Pennsic
in over 20 years, the person that drew the cartoon died 10 or 15 years ago,
but to this day, that cartoon come to mind when I use a Port a John and put
the lid down

It is true that not everyone reads signs, however a lot do, that is why stores
use them. Instead of so much condemning, lets see if we can help folks
remember to. Let s try some cute notices, Remind folks to put a tool back
I can see a cartoon of someone looking for a tool, and the caption "Darn its not
here, where did put it?’ A ‘You re Momma doesn t work here’ I am sure others can
do a lot better than I can,

BTW I am am a lot neater at the space than I am at home,

[artg_dms]

But then, maybe it’s arrogance - as in nothing is ever good enough

Arrogance?? As in this doesn’t meet my standards therefore I’ll leave behind a bigger mess.
Failing to see the psychotics here.

Then again there are those who screw things up and don’t give a darn about the chaos they leave behind.

[clk75201]

Not the direction I was headed. I was deliberately obtuse.

Muting the thread, though. No DMS until Shapeoko 2 training on Sunday.

Ya’ll have a good one.