Honorarium Payments

[Kevin]

Maybe we don’t have to take a broad axe to the problem though like half the classes and half the honorarium. Maybe could start with 20% reduction and gently modify as necessary

[Draco]

In Y2014, maybe we average about 40-45 new adds/month.The monthly drops rate maybe average about 25. Presuming Adds require some amount of training, teachers are training low 40’s to increase membership by 15-20 folk.

Y2015, the numbers are about the same ratio: Add 40-50, train ~80. Same ratio, but it is twice the number of people to be trained every month.

Y2018, the situation is way worse: Add 40-50, train ~140.

I see your point. The more churn, the more required classes. And the problem is getting worse.

Required classes are almost like overhead. They aren’t really what the people are wanting.
There has been much focus on getting new people but little focus on retaining people.
It seems to me that retaining people might save us more money.
There are many ideas and parts to retaining people.
Seems to me people stay members because:

• Using tools & resources to make money for my business
• My friends hang out there and I get inspired to make cool stuff
• I know I will use it some day but I don’t mind supporting it

[bertberaht]

I see your point. The more churn, the more required classes. And the problem is getting worse.

Thank you reading and understanding the gist of the matter. The teacher demand/burden has and is continuing to ramp up. No matter how many willing volunteers you have, the organization is unlikely to be able to meet such a runaway demand for basic enabling classes, especially if total membership is shrinking or only begins to grow modestly. Maybe the best case scenario short of a focus on retention would be for qualified new members to be encouraged to help with teaching sooner than later.

[bertberaht]

makerspace has been really boring

Lara, I don’t think you are alone in that regard. I am concerned about how easy it is to get a parking space too much of the time lately, how vacant DMS feels when I’m there. Then there will be a busy day, and I’ll think, well, maybe it’s OK. Then the next few days are back to sparse attendance. Worrisome to me anyway.

[bertberaht]

At the growth honaroum payments were having, we would easily burn through our cash hoard within a short period.

All true and it took too long for that fact to finally be the focus. It should have been raised as a point of concern prior to climbing like it did. The ramp up occurred over a number of months, but was not identified as something to worry about until it was already a serious problem.

[bpamplin]

I keep meaning to teach classes but I haven’t made it over the activation energy bump yet.

I have been very active in encouraging and helping a number of people to teach their first class in electronics. Post a Talk topic about your interest area and you will likely find a teacher in that subject area that will help you get started. Some points, like honorarium amounts, have changed but here is a list of thoughts that I posted and others added to.

Thoughts on developing and running a class

While helping several teachers-to-be develop electronics classes, I throw out quite a few suggestions. I’ve been asked to make a list which follows. Some items may be controversial. I look forward to your view. Let’s be civil and expand this thread into a list of additional things that we think is useful in developing and running a class. Much of this, like slide presentation info, may not apply to other areas. I hope some thoughts here may be helpful. When you are ready to submit a class…

[Tapper]

To frown on someone making money, whether a lot or a little, shouldn’t be the point

Actually, it is THE point, and all others are just a sideshow.

From " Exemption Requirements - 501©(3) Organizations":

To be tax-exempt under section 501©(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operatedexclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501©(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization , i.e. , it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.

Organizations described in section 501©(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations . Organizations described in section 501©(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170.

The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501©(3) organization’s net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction.

[Draco]

It isn’t inurement if it is fair payment. I’d say for most classes, our honorarium is below fair market. If you are talking about Eventbrite, then that doesn’t involve DMS finances. The only resource we are providing is classroom space and tool access and I would say promoting those are part of our mission.

[Tapper]

It isn’t inurement if it is fair payment.

Which is an expression of expertise you don’t have.

[Draco]

I’m not certain what you mean by that.

From the IRS

The general rule is that if the arrangements are indistinguishable from ordinary
prudent business practices in comparable circumstances, a fair exchange of
benefits is presumed and inurement will not be found. If the transactions depart
from that standard to the benefit of an individual, a finding of inurement should be
made.

[ladysandry]

I’ve noticed that it seems to be the same classes over and over with just a few less often offered/new project classes, and a lot of those are more expensive than they used to be. Most of those are also eventbrite classes with random fees tacked on. Example: There is a class that is $50 with a $4.90 fee (~10% fee) while another is $9.65 with a $2.35 fee (~31% fee) and yet another is $15 with a $2.26 fee (~15% fee). What’s up with the crazy range of fee %s? Is that an eventbrite thing?
Honestly I just ignore any eventbrite classes which is a shame because some of them sound interesting. I haven’t taught anything since May/June while I waited for all this to play out, but I noticed I also haven’t taken any classes, and been at the space a lot less because of the two. shrug

[Edenblue]

It depends on the cost of the ticket and how they pay.

[hon1nbo]

t isn’t inurement if it is fair payment.

However a committee member indicating that one of the factors in a policy decision was increasing payments to teachers could be indicative of that since the payment was increased based on their actions, in which they have a vested interest.

This isn’t as clear as some here like to make it seem.

[tomthm]

If it’s Eventbrite, then it isn’t DMS earnings.

[tomthm]

What is out lawyers interpretation?

[shoottx]

The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501©(3) organization’s net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction.

Brian, I appreciate your concern and care for Dallas Makerspace. The problem is not what you know, it is what you know is wrong. Based on your long service in city government, where the use of community property is frowned on and greatly discouraged, the rules are promulgated based on community standards not on IRS rules.

So, extrapolating those rules to a twisted interpretation of inurement for DMS, is factual incorrect, and an inappropriate discussion of the honorarium process. If you will read the rule, and some of the IRS case studies that discuss inurement, you will understand that the guidelines you are attempting to apply do not.

First Dallas Makerspace is not organized for the benefit of private interests nor individuals. In most of the IRS case histories for inurement are when net revenues of an organization are distributed beyond reasonable contribution. And/or benefits are restricted to a few members of the organization.

And as quoted in your text the instructors, that receive honorariums, you are railing against do not have substantial influence over the organization.

So with your own quote of the rule, you have dismissed your own argument.

Oh and before you dismiss my qualifications to understand the argument, you would need to understand them and you don’t.

[Mrksls2]

Even a member of the woodshop committee, in their long list of reasons for the class structure, included the increase in honorariums paid as one of the reasons for that system.

You need to check my post again Jim. I stated several times that increased honorariums were never even considered when restructuring the classes, but instead stated that as an unintentional byproduct it ultimately helped recruit more teachers.

[michaelb]

activation energy bump

God damn it…

[FairieCyanide]

??? And Characters

[Mrksls2]

Thank you for your perspective. I’m (still) in the process of getting a more advanced soap class, paid through Eventbrite, but will continue to teach the $5.00 intro soap class. For most Eventbrite class, I want to steal an idea from Lance Puig, and combine it with an idea another member shared, and include one or more seats in each class that is offered at a discounted rate for those who can’t do the full price.
I think that Eventbrite, or whatever external payment system is used, has potential to help increase the number of classes being offered, without incurring DMS out-of-pocket costs to pay teachers.

Tommy,
I have two separate discount codes on my Eventbrite account. One is for 50% off the total price for DMS members and the other is a 100% discount code for members who contact me about not being able to afford the courses. I did not move the majority of my classes to Eventbrite to exclude people, I did it so that I can afford to keep doing what I love to do. I also did it because that’s what the board told us to do. It takes a little more work to set it up, but it is worth it in my opinion. There is a lot more control over the scheduling process, and I get paid like clockwork 6 days after every class.