Class No-Shows (most un-excellent!)

Education
#62

If they don’t like the presentation, why the h*ll are they registering???

And, I don’t like the idea of cancelling class when there are only one or two registered at 3 days out. Some of our equipment seems to require minimal training. If we’re cancelling training classes where most of us know what to do, then we’re blocking those few without a clue from learning. I’ve been teaching a few Sewing Basics classes, and pre-registration is pretty hit-or-miss. Still, those few folks would like to learn, and if I cancel, then it’ll be even longer before another class comes around.

3 Likes
#63

For instance signing up for multiple classes from a teacher, then after attending one deciding not to bother attending the subsequent classes.

Again, unless there are limits on class attendance there is really no harm. Though it would be better if we had some form of feedback. Both for the instructor to learn from, and potential future students to better judge if a class is worthwhile for them.

1 Like
#64

How many people would complain in a questionnaire about a poor teacher? I have always felt that this is a self correcting problem, poor teachers don’t get the three students and quit teaching. If you ask someone how they liked the class they will probably give an unenthusiastic answer and you don’t signup for the next class.

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#65

I have to agree with Beth, and sometimes a teacher may be great for other students
but not you. I ran into that in college

The only time I have ever cancelled a class is when I was throwing up, And I offered to Teach
that student in one on one

For those that have to travel long distance to come and gas is an isse
maybe they should hold multiple classes on the same day,
I am going to be trying that so my hubby doesn t have to drive me out
as often

#66

I can’t recall ever having a poor teacher at DMS and I have taken a lot of classes. I think if that were to happen though I would cancel all future classes to release my spot instead of just no showing.

ETA that a lot of teachers at DMS have day jobs and may not have a ton of experience teaching and they aren’t really getting paid much if anything. It seems very unexcellent to no show on a teacher even if they aren’t the best. I am very thankful for the classes at DMS and what I have learned from every class.

1 Like
#67

While there may have potentially been an issue with teachers grabbing people in the hallway to sign in, that was before the new calendar system. I agree that if you have had 3 or more preregister before the class, you should receive the honorarium. As we all know, life happens. I recently had a nail in my tire and had to miss @fedakkee class. I did email him and caught it next time. I have also been guilty of completely forgetting I had signed up for a class two weeks ago and am on the other side of town. I’ve also been on the receiving end and wondering if students were running late or going to no show. While I understand completely why Woodshop needed to start charging a $5 fee, I may be wrong but don’t think it’s widespread enough to elicite a penalty discussion.

6 Likes
#68

I like the idea of a feedback mechanism; there’s no real downside to that IMHO. I’d say put it on the backlog and maybe it gets done sometime. Alternatively, at less cost and much faster to deploy, maybe we could use something like SurveyMonkey or a similar existing service that does that sort of thing.

However, the concept of a bad teacher presentation isn’t going to be applicable in all situations. Take mine and Shapeoko Basic; it doesn’t matter how bad I do because if you want to use the tool you need to take the class and I’m the only person who stepped up to create it and volunteered to teach it. You’re stuck with me until they find someone better or I bail :slight_smile:

9 Likes
#69

Right now if you set a "cancellation deadline, it is also the deadline registration. So you can’t have people register after that deadline.

I know it would probably be a huge coding change, but I’d like to see them act differently. I’d keep the “you can get a refund” cancellation deadline. But I’d like to see the registration / extended registration deadline be independent of the cancellation deadline. Anyone who registers after the cancellation deadline would not be eligible for a refund. Period.

That way, if someone doesn’t show up for a class, they don’t get a refund but someone found in the hallway (or sitting by waiting) could still register/attend. The instructor could still get the honorarium. The equipment/classroom would be used by more people.

7 Likes
#70

The type of feedback on instruction that’s being discussed is generally referred to as a “Smile Sheet” or more formally a level 1 evaluation (anyone interested can do a search for Kirkpatrick’s Four Levels of learning evaluation). If done right, it’s a highly effective tool that can be used to improve teaching & more importantly learning, something I hope anyone teaching a class would like to see.

The original model has issues on how well it does this, and had issues with being too teacher/facilitator centered. Luckily, it’s been updated and I highly advise using the more learner centered evaluation. Here’s a list of improved questions that can be used -

Likert scale Questions (1-7, though I dislike neutral as a choice)
“I understood the objectives that were outlined during the course.”
“I am clear about what is expected of me as a result of going through this training.”
“I will be able to apply what I learned during this session.”
“I do not anticipate any barriers to applying what I learned.”
“I anticipate that I will eventually see positive results as a result of my efforts.”

Opened Ended Questions
“What were the three most important things you learned from this session?”
“From what you learned, what do you plan to apply?”
“What kind of help might you need to apply what you learned?”
“What barriers do you anticipate you might encounter as you attempt to put these new skills into
practice?”
“What ideas do you have for overcoming the barriers you mentioned?”
“What ultimate impact do you think you might contribute to the organization as you successfully
apply what you learned?”

3 Likes
#71

We also need questions on teacher performance

Was the teacher late for class?
Was the teacher unprepared?
Did the class cover the material that was proposed to be covered?

etc…

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#72

In my experience, those questions never get you back the information you’re looking for. Only a handful of learners bother to answer them truthfully. The second question especially opens a pandora’s box I’d advise not going down. Questions of those types tend to be minimized and dismissed by instructors. I’ve seen professional training teams repeatedly find justifications on why low marks are the fault of the learners, or have turned around and used the evals out of context and against instructors that weren’t doing things the way they felt they should be. I’ve also seen plenty of instances with instructors who were entertaining, personable and popular among the learners get high marks as being great instructors, well prepared and knowledgable when they were the exact opposite.

The third question you posted “Did the class cover the material that was proposed to be covered?” is more than covered by the list I posted and I’d say in a much more effective way. From my standpoint, I’m much more interested in the effectiveness of the instruction. What can the learner do afterwards. In the end, that is what really matters.

Aside from that, let’s say we go down the road of the typical level 1 and do instructor centered evaluations. To what end? What do you propose we do with the results of the evaluations? What happens to someone who gets low marks? Who’s responsible for going through the data? Realize you can make some of it scaled or multiple choice, but that only tells part of the story.

Like I said, I’m hesitant of the effectiveness and usefulness of those types of evaluations in a professional training team. I’m even less convinced in an all volunteer situation.

5 Likes
#73

The feedback should be for potential students as well, which makes this different from most education environments. Our students have the opportunity to choose whether to invest their time with a particular instructor. In one particular case (and my only bad experience at a DMS class), I would have answered Yes, Yes, and No. The instructor was fairly late (though right on the clock when ‘finishing’) which resulted in a short class. They did not have prepare material beyond a generic handout and a device that didn’t quite function properly. About half of the material wasn’t really covered either.

I suspect that in most situations our members would be kind for these kinds of questions; however, they would allow us to let potential students weed out cool sounding classes from instructors with a poor record of teaching. Another metric that should show up for teachers is the number of cancels they have had.

#74

This is a HUGE problem in those rate my teacher sites.

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#75

We are not a traditional education outlet. We have no way to determine how effective the instructor actually is. In other words there are no standardized testing to determine if a student learned the subject matter. But an entertaining, personable instructor that inspires the members to go out an try something is my definition of effective.

I disagree. When I look at those questions I would answer based upon what was actually covered, not whether what was covered was all of what was supposed to be. I suspect most people would do the same.

#76

But in the context of DMS, if an instructor has low ratings, the Class review committee can ask for more information before approving another class by that instructor.

For the most part I think instructors do a pretty good job teaching and students know they are volunteers. Additionally, for the most part, instructors are willing to help individuals. And most instructors enthusiasm for the subject matter makes the class work.

But there is always room for improvement.

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#77

I liked the Likert scale, although I’m not sure any student can even answer question 1 unless the material was prepared by someone who knew something about curriculum design. I’m not sure we will get a lot of response from the Open Ended Questions (takes more thought and time). However, as an instructor I would benefit from any of those things that students choose to answer.

We also have different types of classes - some are taught repeatedly by one or more instructors. Others are one time technique or project classes. While those questions are useful in both situations, they are particularly helpful for enhancing the curriculum of classes that are taught repeatedly.

As @Photomancer has stated, one objective of the organization is to identify sub-par instructors who either need more help, or who shouldn’t be teaching for one reason or another (repeatedly not showing up, being grossly unprepared, or something else). We all hear hallway rumors but that isn’t actionable. We can’t improve without data to use for that improvement.

Regarding questions about the instructor:

I think you will find that in some ways we are unlike other adult learners. We tend to be brutally candid - often far beyond the point of politeness. (Sad but true). Unlike the corporate environment where there are consequences for “burning” an instructor, we tend to be less sensitive to that here.

EDIT: I have to point out that someone reminded me that we are also quite tolerant of inexperienced instructors also. Which is true!

How would you suggest that as an organization we identify sub-par instructors if we don’t ask the students?

3 Likes
#78

I was a computer classroom instructor for 6 years.

The best and simplistic surveys were 3 questions.

  1. Did you like the class? Yes / No. Why?
  2. Did you like the classroom space? Yes / No. Why?
  3. Did the instructor do a good job? Yes / No. Why?
  4. Comments?

First, it is fast and understandable. If someone is in a rush, they will hit the Yes / No answers and bail out. If someone is unhappy about 1 of the 3 things, they have space to comment and you get useable feedback, hopefully.

Worked very well.

6 Likes
#79

That is four questions.

#80

Walter, I would hope in that scenario that the unsatisfied attendee would at least unregistered for the later classes.

My experience with non-attendees has been when attending single-class classes (e.g. Laser intro class, leatherworking basics, a pottery class, et al). Sometimes I was attending, other times I was just in the area. Once I was the teacher and had two no-shows out of six.

Another issue of non-attendees is impact of the class waiting for the no-shows: this often puts the class 10 min behind schedule before the class even starts.

2 Likes
#81

And folks write down the time wrong, they get caught in traffic,

I mieessed one class a few weeks back because I got caught up in
the weaving I was doing and didn t want to get up, I was in the building
no laptop that day either