Nope and it was Solvent
âItâs good for two things: degreasing engines and killing brain cells.â- Cypher from The Matrix
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I think in terms of legal liability, having and enforcing a rule against underage drinking on the premises would cover us. For those really concerned with the legal issues, we could put that in the bylaws.
There is no point in saying illegal things are illegal, they are already illegal.
The suggestion was that by DMS saying we donât want people to leave alcohol sitting around easily accessible can we reduce risk of liability for DMS, if any, in the case that some minor then gets their hands on it, and is that reduction in risk worth the inconvenience to members.
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âWe canât live our lives in fear of the worst possible least likely scenario to occur. Yes, alcohol is an adult thing, but so is smoking. Smoke outside. Drink prudently. Build cool things. Enjoy your life. Pay your dues. Watch your kids.â
Well said Nic. All good things. 
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We have many things that can be abused. Spray Paint requires purchasers to be over 17? I think. Should we worry about huffers? Other chemicals can be dangerous. Should we worry about minors and chemical burns? Fires?
For things stored in personal bins, will there be a policing force to examine each personal box for the contents?
The Space has dangers. So does the residential garage and home. Folks get hurt. Hopefully we recover, learn and do better.
This proposal is not so much fear of liability, as of fear and controlling people.
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Speaking for myself (and who else would I speak for?) I have no problem with people storing alcohol short term in a sealed container. If I find an open warm can of beer I would throw it away just like I would any other trash I find laying around.
I am a tea teetotaler, but I do not have a problem with people that drink. I also dislike having too many rules. Make the ones we need, and no more.
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âWe canât live our lives in fear of the worst possible least likely scenario to occur. Yes, alcohol is an adult thing, but so is smoking. Smoke outside. Drink prudently. Build cool things. Enjoy your life. Pay your dues. Watch your kids.â
Deserves another post
Instead of hypothetical statement lets just drown this out with rational statements.
Rational Re-Post War
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If the issue was truly about DMS liability, we would have started with the far more likely sources of liability at the space. Arguably, based upon our insurance rates and feedback, that would be automotive.
As it stands, we donât even know how many under 21 members we currently have.
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I have added an item to the memberâs meeting agenda, to give the members a chance to vote and be heard prior to the board meeting. Perhaps we can settle this issue then?
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I personally see no point in creating an extra rule. Just like John said, spray paint you must be over 18. You canât even buy sharpies anymore without getting carded or having to be over 18. This whole deal is getting ludicrous, there is no reason to make rules for something thatâs already illegal.
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I agree, which is why I structured the item at the member meeting the way I did. Unfortunately, since the item has been added to the board for a new rule, and at least one board member has shown their support for the rule, the members best option for preventing the rule from being passed is to be proactive and vote on it first.
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The only issue I see that is of any concern is how âcriminally negligentâ would be interpreted.
The Google definition is:
Under some criminal law statutes, criminal negligence is defined as any type of conduct that âgrossly deviatesâ from normal, reasonable standards of an ordinary person. It generally involves an indifference or disregard for human life or for the safety of people.
If you leave alcohol in the fridge, thatâs:
- Not a gross deviation in my personal estimation.
- The individual who left the alcoholâs responsibility to the court to prove that they werenât negligent.
- Likely to be thrown out after a day anyway.
If you leave alcohol in your personal bin thats:
- In no way negligent, as the minor shouldnât be in there anyway
- Your own damn business.
- likely to be looked upon (by me) with envy because I always forget to bring beer with me.
If you leave alcohol in a conspicuous place, EG. the middle of a table in the workshop, unattended thatâs:
- Technically negligent, but probably not gross negligence.
- Still the bringer of the alcoholâs responsibility (not DMSâs) in the case of a minor stealing it there are two issues the stealing and the negligence.
- Poor form (donât leave your bottles of booze unattended).
This should be up to the individual, and no rule should be put in place. Itâs a personal responsibility and hence a personal liability to walk away from your beer.
In other words: If itâs in your bin or on your person, thatâs your own deal and liability. If itâs out in the open an unattended, donât whine if someone throws it away. If itâs in the fridge and itâs not dated with a name, expect it to be thrown out.
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I have no opinion on the matter being discussed, but I have to ask - why is it important that alcohol be consumed at the Space?
I enjoy a drink or two myself, but normally, feel its a bad idea to combine drinking with dangerous tools.
If the Board has questions about this (and they probably should), then they should refer the question to a qualified attorney, and then follow his or her advice. Thatâs the responsible thing to do.
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Many people come to the space to code, or use paint, or many other non-power tool things. Plus we do monthly potlucks where in general, no tools are used at all.
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Another one is because it is made and/or bottled here at the space.
Personally I donât see the risk being large enough to worry about trying to reduce alcohol left sitting around with an overarching rule. As a comparison, a different topic I think of as relatively more worrisome would be things like installing drop ceiling electrical outlets at worktables to reduce tripping hazards of current stretched out power coord reels.
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How about we just put our booze in an opaque or paper bag with our name and date on it when we put it in the fridge? (âŚout of sight; out of mind!) Nobody knows itâs booze unless they go looking and nobody should mess with it until itâs out of date anyway. By that time, the owner should have consumed it, taken it home or disposed of it anyway. Anything else is abandoning foodstuffs for others to deal with, meddling, stealing or just otherwise not being excellent. A little personal responsibility goes a long way.
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There is no fun to be had here. There are many hurt feelers here so do your best to be here Thursday to vote it down.
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17 posts were split to a new topic: Vote by Proxy - Pros, Cons, Legalities, and Other Stuff