https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20160626#New_Business
There is a proposed rule to ban alcohol at DMS.
Underage drinking is illegal and any minor caught drinking is already acting against the law and should be removed from the premises until they are sober. Dallas Makerspace as an organization doesn’t sell alcohol, and doesn’t provide alcohol to anyone, especially minors. Adult members do occasionally enjoy adult beverages, and have been known to leave them here in the fridge or in personal storage. This isn’t illegal, immoral or unethical, but it does make some members nervous.
It is illegal to give or sell it to minors, not illegal to have it on private property for private consumption. I have never seen or heard of minors drinking alcohol at the space. It hasn’t been a problem, and likely won’t be a problem, so why make it a problem?
People occasionally leave alcohol in the fridge at DMS, usually on accident. We do not generally allow people to take stuff they didn’t put in the fridge without permission, alcohol or otherwise. If a minor takes alcohol from the fridge, then they are stealing and should be punished appropriately.
If something is already illegal, then we don’t need a rule against it. Don’t make unnecessary rules.
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I see no reason for rules of a censorious tendency. They serve no constructive purpose, & have a tendency to multiply. What’s next — no art classes with nude models?
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While it is illegal to give or sell alcohol to minors, the agenda item seems to be concerned with a minor being able to steal the alcohol. If this is the case, I would say it is addressed already by the Code of conduct.
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Rules_and_Policies#Minors
Minors
- The DMS is not a day care.
- Minors 15 and under must be accompanied closely by Parent or Legal
Guardian at all times and are not allowed to have keys to the space.
1, Accompanied closely means visual range generally, and immediate reach when near dangerous tools.
- Parents/Legal Guardians are responsible for their children and their actions.
If we have unattended minors wandering around the space, we should hold their parents accountable to this rule.
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That really only covers under 16. Under 21 not covered by our rules, except that if they drink they are doing something illegal.
Please Stan tell us about the liquor you store at DMS. (Accidental?)
This comment is extremely disingenuous
Nobody is saying banning Alcohol I have said it all along act responsible the truth is it appears people can’t act responsible.
Dallas Makerspace is a shared space this item is asking to clarify what myself and others had considered common sense don’t store alcohol at DMS we do have minors that have free reign of the place.
I personally don’t want to ever get the call that someone got alcohol from DMS and got in trouble I have enough issues to worry about and for me it comes down to avoidance.
The intent is to require everyone to not store it.
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Good point Stan, I was thinking this was targeted at the increasing number of unattended smaller children I have been seeing. I figure anyone we trust to run a table saw or such is responsible enough to not place DMS at risk by taking someone else’s alcohol.
I have a small bottle in my personal storage. It is currently not against the rules to have it at DMS,
You also apparently didn’t see part of my first paragraph:
"Adult members do occasionally enjoy adult beverages, and have been known to leave them here in the fridge or in personal storage. "
The intent is to make rules where none are needed.
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How much of a potential liability to DMS is leaving controlled substances around where they may be accessible to others(easily visible to others in fridges)?
You arrive in the morning and put a six pack of beer in the fridge to chill for a pot luck that evening. That is technically ‘storing’, but I doubt most would see anything wrong with that. While we have under 21 members, they are expected to not steal other people’s property, most of which is far more valuable then a six-pack, so how is this any different.
The most likely issue we would have with this is the under 16 minors whose parents don’t keep well supervised, but that is an entirely different issue.
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If we can’t expect under age members to not steal other peoples property, why don’t we simply require all members to be at least 21?
The potential liability game covers a lot of things at DMS, perhaps we ought to talk about more concrete issues?
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That might be an argument for liability, if DMS made it a habit of allowing members to grab stuff they don’t own from the fridge. We don’t allow that… we require people to mark their stuff when they put it in the fridge, stealing other peoples stuff from the fridge is already against the rules and illegal.
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While I can’t comment on the liability aspect
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/AL/htm/AL.106.htm
Section 106.06(a)
“Except as provided in Subsection (b) of this section, a person commits an offense if he purchases an alcoholic beverage for or gives or makes available an alcoholic beverage to a minor with criminal negligence.”
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Sec. 106.04. CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL BY A MINOR. (a) A minor commits an offense if he consumes an alcoholic beverage.
(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the alcoholic beverage was consumed in the visible presence of the minor’s adult parent, guardian, or spouse.
If your just talking civil liability
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/AL/htm/AL.2.htm
nts
allowed the minor to be served or provided any of the alcoholic beverages that contributed to the minor’s intoxication on the premises owned or leased by the adult.
This is what they use for party laws to sue the parents.of the kids throwing a party.
I do have another option remove the ability for 16-18 to come in unattended as in this case that is all I care about.
If the minor stole the beverage, we didn’t “allow” the minor to be served, nor did we provide it.
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“Allowed the minor to be served or provided” is a very different thing. If it were a question of “serving or providing”, you might have a point, but in fact, the supposition is that minors might obtain alcohol without the permission of the owner. You are making up a fake issue for no obvious reason.
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Robert that would be 16-21. And if we are concerned about this, then yes disallow any member under 21… Then lets start worrying about all of the other more likely liability risks we have…
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Please read the law it is my understanding at 18 they can make there own choices and it’s stolen I am just talking about under 18.
Sec. 2.02. CAUSES OF ACTION. (a) This chapter does not affect the right of any person to bring a common law cause of action against any individual whose consumption of an alcoholic beverage allegedly resulted in causing the person bringing the suit to suffer personal injury or property damage.
(b) Providing, selling, or serving an alcoholic beverage may be made the basis of a statutory cause of action under this chapter and may be made the basis of a revocation proceeding under Section 6.01(b) of this code upon proof that:
(1) at the time the provision occurred it was apparent to the provider that the individual being sold, served, or provided with an alcoholic beverage was obviously intoxicated to the extent that he presented a clear danger to himself and others; and
(2) the intoxication of the recipient of the alcoholic beverage was a proximate cause of the damages suffered.
(c) An adult 21 years of age or older is liable for damages proximately caused by the intoxication of a minor under the age of 18 if:
(1) the adult is not:
(A) the minor’s parent, guardian, or spouse; or
(B) an adult in whose custody the minor has been committed by a court; and
(2) the adult knowingly:
(A) served or provided to the minor any of the alcoholic beverages that contributed to the minor’s intoxication; or
(B) allowed the minor to be served or provided any of the alcoholic beverages that contributed to the minor’s intoxication on the premises owned or leased by the adult.
If you take property that doesn’t belong to you it is legally stealing, whether your 16 or 30. Many under 18 children have been arrested and prosecuted for theft.
As to your reading of the law, I suggest you pay attention to this section
If we discover a minor stealing alcohol (or anything else for that matter) so that we know about it, then we ban them permanently. Simple solution.
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