Why is DMS such a mess?

DMS General
#44

I’m not implying you don’t help. I’m flat out stating it. You do not help, at least not that I know of. I’ll take you at your word- you might have offered to help by I dunno, managing contractors or something, but you do not actually help.

I have never seen you at a clean up day or a committee meeting that you were not there specifically to rabble-rouse. I have never seen you teach a class. Prove me wrong. Get motivated. Make the space better.

Or continue to whine and pass the buck. Maybe spend more time talking about how people who already do more than you do, should do their volunteer work according to your standards.

1 Like
#45

I notice that the tables have a message saying that things left on the table will be thrown away daily.

#46

Yes they do, but that’s always been a challenge to enforce because people argue you don’t know how long item have been sitting there and if their owner is coming back. Enforcing this rule gets cries of “throwing away someone’s hard work” as we’ve already seen in this discussion.

Finding a way to get people to clean up after themselves is what is needed. If community leaders don’t make it a priority, the general membership will not either.

#47

Not sure why you think bitching never helps. it often gets discussion going and eventually people put up or shut up. No one ever said it was about me, or you for that matter. Brandon just asked a question.

^^^ So Much Truth ^^^

Yes it was sarcasm and why I linked to a video of George Carlin.

#48

I generally agree with this, but building consensus among a critical mass of stakeholders is something leaders do in order to make the change work. This is often confused with building consensus among a super-majority of everyone with an opinion on the issue, which is far more difficult.

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#49

Just as a side note, the contractor the Space contacted about the urinal said the original was so badly installed that it is not repairable. Thus the current re-do of the restrooms to provide more “seating”.

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#50

It is rarely consensus in those situations, but rather “disagree and commit.” A group buys in to a leaders proposal and instead of being devisive, they commit whether they agree or not. That unity is built on trust.

#51

I’ve tried it both ways. Stared at a sink-full of dirty dishes and just read them the riot act. Then, another time, I just washed the dishes. I’ll let you guess which one got them cleaner faster.

I disagree. In my experience, it breeds resentment, entitlement, gatekeeping, passive aggression, and wasted time. I choose to go about solving problems differently. I will continue to criticize those who take to the internet to try to clean a mess when a broom is the proper tool for the job.

You say “potato”, I say “a passive aggressive way to highlight a point that’s more effectively made directly- and with a broom.”

Once we sorted through the nonsense, I think he approached a point upon which a vigorous debate about DMS policy is probably needed- the extent to which the Board should manage the committee chairs. But that’s not where we started because snarkiness is more fun.

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#52

Our members are able-bodied adults, not inanimate objects. If you can make a mess, you can also clean it up. No member should think they can walk away from a workspace less clean than they found it.

You’re right if I’m cleaning up my own mess, but when it’s the culture that needs cleaning it’s policy reform that’s the proper tool and that starts with discussion.

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#53

Unless there were some repercussions, you washing the dishes just ensured there’d be more abandoned dirty dishes in the sink.

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#54

I couldn’t agree more. I think where we disagree is how to inspire people to be responsible. I do not think pictures of areas without context and a couple of articles about broken windows theory coupled with the question “Why is this messy?” accomplishes anything, If it did, this problem would have been solved ages ago.

Possibly, but I don’t see any suggestions coming from the initial post. I see more pointless grousing. Now once we got a little further in, there’s at least a suggestion that we need to hire somebody. Now, I wholeheartedly disagree with that idea, and it’s pretty well-trodden turf around here, but at least it’s an idea- something we can actually discuss.

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#55

I disagree, All I ensured was that the dishes got clean. Sure some people might view that as license to be jerks, but maybe someone else saw that it’s ok or admirable to help where you can.

#56

At one time we had a do ocracy that was focused on what an individual wanted
instead of one focused on what the community wanted

One member decided they didn t like the fire cabinet because it had collected a
lot of crap so in spite of the fact that it is not only needed but required they removed it and would have
taken to the dump if others had not physically prevented them for doing that.
Then we would have had to spend money on buying a new one

That same member ignored that the community wanted the exchange shelf so in the middle of the night, yep that night
they removed it and replaced is with an expensive shelf they had bought from U line and then stocked it with more
expensive products from the same place

This member had made their self a commit y of ONE so that could be the dictator of ally things logistic

At other times they decided that tools we had were not needed so out to the dumpster they went

We have changed from dictators to leaders I think that is an improvement

Have things gotten more messy recently? I am sure they have but some of that is because the space is
being used more it worse right now with expansion looming both with committees stockpiling items that will be needed and with committees spending time on working on expansion plans and on plans of how to handle heavier use

Many committees are adding in work days to clean up and to maintain their area

If go into a home dressed for sale it will not look like one lived in by a family with 4 kids, 2 cats a dog a tank of fish
Some dayd that house will look like a storm hit it other times it will look a lot better but neve like it did
when it was dressed for sale

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#57

Everyone is talking about culture and cleaning. So are we forgetting that it’s already part of the culture?

Unless we’re going to talk about punishment and punitive measures then there isn’t a whole lot you can do about it besides picking up messes that aren’t yours.

Tidiness is subjective and everyone has a different tolerance for clutter. To my eyes those pics aren’t that bad. But I also don’t see the free shelf as an eyesore.

I do think that the loading dock should be clear and all walkways, but I don’t think that this is as bad as the OP suggests.

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#58

I have mixed emotions about this. It seems like a feel-good solution but I worry that it could make things worse. People will now just assume that someone else will do an even heightened level of straightening up after them. But I would be open-minded about a carefully crafted list of responsibilities.

More significantly - I’d like to point out that if we had hired such a person when we moved into this building in 2014 we would have close to zero dollars in our expansion fund.

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#59

In the world of business this can work; managers ultimately have leverage over employees and getting buy-in is used to smooth acceptance of the plan. In a volunteer organization you don’t have that leverage, thus a degree of genuine consensus becomes more important.

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#60

Last night I walked past the loading dock and used the path behind the
Haas to get to the FA meeting

The workshop is often so crowded with folks working that it hard to get to the south side of the it
if you are carrying anything and while it is a hassle
it is a good thing

#61

I know I and many others have used several approaches to try to inspire members, some of which have been more successful than others. I clean up after myself and others every time I’m at the space (which, granted, hasn’t been often the last six months due to having a baby), I organized committee area clean up days when I chaired a committee, I made rules and posted them on the wiki, I participate in discussions like this hoping to inspire others to be more excellent with their behavior.

We can all do more, but the greatest effect would be if our leaders do so as well and if they held committees more responsible for keeping their space clean and usable for the largest number of members possible.

#62

Here is the past thread for anyone who wants to relive the past https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/logistics-ideas/19771

This thread is about discussing if DMS is messier than ideal (as evidenced by pictures in initial post)? Is it trending worse or better over time? If it isn’t getting better, what can be done to improve that trajectory?

#63

So far we seem to have
“It’s not actually an issue”
“Feedback is not welcome”
“Something happened in the past that I didn’t like”

My hypothesis is the gradual decline into disorder is accelerating because a member who walks past one mess is much less likely to bother with improving another area.

Does it matter if things are a little messy and members can still work currently? I think it does because my theory is that the mess will grow and soon it will be unsafe and members unable to use the space.

Further I think the volunteer consensus approach being applied today is failing to keep all areas useable, and without highly motivated individuals doing disproportionate amounts of work things wont improve. People want to come up and work on their hobbies and interesting things, but no one is interested in working on general organization problems or replacing ceiling tiles. Can anything be done to improve this at an organizational level?

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