I just want to rant for a little bit. I’m certainly no auto expert but I’ve done a lot of auto repairs short of tearing down an engine, transmission, or rear end in my 57 trips around the sun. I can read a factory service manual. I know when it is important to use a torque wrench. So whenever I have the time, I go to rockauto, order parts, and head up to DMS for a combo social hour / repair session. I do all my own oil changes mostly because I don’t trust anyone else to use the correct oil; that’s another rant… It’s very fulfilling to turn a wrench and hoist a 255/60R19 off the car. In my day job I spend all day on the phone trying to convince telephone companies to be innovative so a little physical labor while forcing something to my will is rewarding.
Sometimes, I just don’t have time and so I go to a repair shop hoping I’ll at least find someone competent. That’s hit or miss in Collin County outside of dealers. But what I can’t figure out, for the life of me, is where they get the labor time estimates! Parts are mostly dead on. I can take the rockauto price, double it, and that’s their parts cost. I’m ok with that. It’s called a mark up. Remember I sell hardware to phone companies :).
But where the hell do they get the labor estimates? By my guess they double the labor time. On top of charging $195/hour. Seriously, does anyone know where the get the labor estimates?
What is the labor time estimate to change both front struts on a 2010 GMC Acadia? 3 hours @$195/hr was the fee, not including the alignment.
BTW, I did this myself on a 2011 F-150 so I know what it takes… It took me about 3 hrs and if any of you have ever waited on me for the auto bay, you can attest that I’m slow AF.
Dealerships use the manufacturer book for hours for warranty work. But out of warranty, they often have dealership multipliers. For regional rust issues and age of vehicle. Independent shops often use the alldata or identifix books. But I’m sure others are out there.
The phrase is ‘book time’ but nowadays a lot of estimates probably come from service data like prodemand. I wouldn’t be surprised if shops had their own ideas of how long a job should take and just used the book time as a reference.
The same job can be much easier or much harder depending on the car. Changing the alternator on a Corolla takes about 15 minutes, but on a g35 it takes an hour or more and a gallon of coolant.
We get the same thing from our warranty dept. “ You spent too many hours on this job” I will usually follow with, real world doesn’t follow a spreadsheet.
I’ve got to a point where I wanted to decline doing warranty work & have those jack asses come down in do it in the time frame they expect.
I’ve heard tell of a dealership doing that once. The manufacturer sent down a corporate mechanic to prove the book time. Apparently guy came out with a tool roll of exactly the tools he needed, in the order he needed them, every part laid out and set up etc.
Friend was a service writer in the 90s/00s and for an independent shop that did flat billing based on OEM service manuals when available. For routine maintenance (i.e. fluid changes, exhaust work, brakes, suspension component service, HVAC service, etc) their mechanics handily beat the service manual time - normally taking less than half the estimate. More complex work¹ tended to meet or exceed manual times, particularly if novel to the mechanics or documentation was scarce.
¹It was also a speed shop so their complex work was often outside the scope of OEM service manuals.
In the “Olde Days” labor times for mechanical and body work was calculated in tenths of a hour and based to manufacturer’s average task times.
Some tasks of course are layered or combined to not double bill. To R&R a clutch with a flylwheel the tech is only getting paid once for the time it take to remove the Engine or Trans or both depending on the application - in order to replace the parts.
Some shops like the theives at Christian Bros and many others make up their own creative labor times to their advantage. The math for this is much the same as the way the Veterans Administration does its calculations.
It is not unusual for a good tech to get paid for 80 to 120 hours of “book time” in a given week at a good shop.
Some jobs are winners and some are time sucks.
Ages ago I did a home garage clutch in a porsche 944. Book time was 12 hours. I had a helper and we were done in just under 4 hours.
Do you still know anyone with access to alldata or identifix? I’m really curious what it says about replacing the coil and strut assembly on the 2010 GMC Acadia. I don’t have the service manual, but I watch a YT video just to make sure there wasn’t anything crazy going on. It’s easily comparable to the F-150. I think they just lied.
Have you checked Prodemand, since that’s readily available.
2010 Acadia uses McPherson struts up front while 2011 F150 uses double wishbone. I’m not saying they’re apples and oranges, but more like french fries and tater tots.
Most shop’s use all data or similar software. Technicians spend a lot of money yo beat book times. Most times its hard to beat them unless you have the right tools or hav the jobs multiple times. Remember you are paying for the cost of tool and experience
The Dallas Public Library used to have Alldata; you had to be in the library in person to use it, but small price to pay. Don’t know when they got rid of it; they definitely had it pre-pandemic. They now have the Chilton library – still really good, the shop library service not the stuff you get in softcover at O’Reilly, I think Alldata’s electrical charts are easier to scroll through for me but YMMV – but so do a ton of regional libraries. NRH, Lewisville, Grapevine iirc, a bunch of others. Might want to check your local.
Chilton says book time for front struts on a 2010 Acadia is 2.1h for both sides (or 1.4h for one side). (edit: and no, that does not include alignment; any auxiliary work like that is always itemized and billed separately, even if it stems from having needed other work.)
If you really want Alldata, I think Mesquite’s library system still has it. Have to be there in person as well; Alldata makes that a requirement for any library, and they strongly enforce it, so very unlikely you’d find online access to it. (Chilton is… not as careful, let’s say)
Prodemand (now back in action) seems to think ~2.5 hours (I assumed a ; other two labor line items are assumptions I included for completeness’ sake. Labor rate filled in automatically…no idea how representative it is for area or any specific shop:
so a little physical labor while forcing something to my will is rewarding.