Strong reminder

[bertberaht]

TLDR: Cyclones capture huge percentage of material in a dust collection system. Life of downsteam filters/collection bins is expanded many-fold. There is an inexpensive, easy way to build a system that alerts users to empty the cyclone collection bins that are user friendly in both size and weight.

I want to reinforce the value of a cyclone before the Felder. I am of the opinion that too many folk don’t appreciate just how effectively the load on the Felder could be reduced with a cyclone separator installed on the inlet line.

The OP @dougbcave was at my shop this week using my 4x8 CNC. I took the opportunity to show him what my simple Harbor Freight cyclone did for the ShopVac I use for my orbital sander. I have a unit like this between my 5" 3M orbital and my ShopVac.

I purchased and have used the 3M sander on a regular basis since late Nov 22. On the day Doug was there, I opened the 5 gallon bucket to discover I really needed to empty it … it was filled to within an inch or two from the top with very fine sanding dust.

If memory serves, I now have emptied the 5 gallon bucket 3 times. We opened the ShopVac and it was essentially empty. I have not emptied the ShopVac in nearly 6 months and it still doesn’t have much of anything in it.

There is no reason why DMS could not achieve a dramatic reduction in the loading on the Felder. If you do it right, I suspect you would go multiple weeks before filling the Felder bins.

I expect some concern will revolve around managing the collection of the cyclone catch container(s). That is not as hard as one might assume and I would be willing to work up a design if needed.

[Bill]

I don’t know what they cost, but maybe a Cyclone for each machine?

Only one at the Felder would fill up very quickly.

[bertberaht]

Think multiples would be a footprint problem. I believe a couple of low weight containers (durable plastic or easily replaced fiber drums?) with a way to autoswitch from a full to an empty plus highly noticeable signaling that the full needs to be emptied would be better use of the limited floor space. Key is to go low tech, reliable design that is simple and dependable.

[bertberaht]

@Bill It occurred to me hours later that you might have thought I was talking about DMS using the little HF cyclones. I wasn’t. Woodshop should have a single large cyclone with collection bins in series with the Felder.

My reference to the HF setup was simply to say “something that simple” captures almost all the very fine dust coming from a sander. Capturing the larger sawdust and shavings from saws, Multicam, jointer, and planer is even easier.

[Bill]

I am thinking ahead to the new woodshop where space is less of a problem.

A unit for each tool is more easily managed: check the bucket before working and empty it afterward if needed.

A centralized one cannot be emptied without shutting all of the tools down, right?

[bertberaht]

@Bill

A centralized one cannot be emptied without shutting all of the tools down, right?

Only if you design it wrong.

[bertberaht]

@Bill

the new woodshop where space is less of a problem

From multiple first hand experiences … the life of extra space in a woodshop might best be measured in nanoseconds!

[dwolf]

I have very limited space in my 1 car “shop garage”. I put in a small collection box between my shapeoko and a fien shop vac (under a table I use for the shapepko) to capture the “big chips”. I know it is not a cyclone (I just don’t have room), but it works really well. I did put a baffle in between the in and out hoses. I never have to replace the bags for the fien shop vac (saving $$$). However, everytime I clean out the box, I have to clean out the cartridge filter on the fien - it does get clogged with fine dust. If I don’t, then the suction on the shop vac is greatly reduced.

[bertberaht]

@Bill

A centralized one cannot be emptied without shutting all of the tools down, right?

Bill, I have continued to noodle on the design concept and can now say that if one were to go with a single bag option, the minimum footprint for the collection station would be 30" x 30" but better would 30" x 40". You would be able to go with a single bag option and not interrupt the Felder if you promptly replaced the filled bag with an empty one. But since that’s not a viable formula for DMS, a dual bag system with about twice the floor footprint would be the sensible choice.

[bertberaht]

@SWA

a pre-filter trap installed that gathers large particles and only holds 10-20 gallons of material(single person weight). This will be small enough for a single person to empty. Then the trolley will be left holding the finer dust

No, just simply no. A single 10-20 gallon “trap” container is way too small. The cyclone would also capture a huge percentage of the fine dust. This is a common misperception about what cyclones do and don’t do. Users would be shutting down the Felder repeatedly anytime a significant amount of jointing or planing was done causing headaches for every other user relying of dust collection.

Turn your thinking upside down. The first stage should capture well over 90% … probably high 90’s. Design so that weight manageable bags of first stage collection can be easily done, personnel notified when it is required, and for less than immediate response because, well … DMS historical behavior.

@SWA

the trolley will be left holding the finer dust and might make it between weekends.

It is more likely, the trolley would make multiple weeks and I would not be surprised if it lasted a month or more if a proper first stage is utilized.

[bertberaht]

@SWA

trap installed that gathers large particles

Thought you might like to see my cyclone discharge while surfacing my MDF spoil board. No large particles were involved or harmed in this demonstration!

Cyclones capture lots of small particles and as a result they never have to end up in the Felder bins or caked on the Felder filters.

[bertberaht]

And it looks like I’ve filled up my first 42 gallon bag with my new cyclone collection set up. Lots of Baltic birch and a little bit of other odds and ends.