My white car was in close proximity when you did this… And despite my concern when I saw you, there was no over spray on my car. So, IMO, you have proved it can be done if the person takes enough care.
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That’s kind of a problem. I don’t really want to seek out someone just to ask permission for something so basic. Kind of takes the adult part of being an adult out of it. I’m all about following rules but once I put my head down to work on a project, I don’t like breaking off and hoping someone else’s schedule matches mine. Anyway, this is way off subject and kind of the point I was making. (Getting back to the subject . The answer is Yes you can spray paint outside but the same problems you have at home apply.) The fact this devolved so easily into a gripe fest means we have an issue. I have heard and agree with the problems facing a paint spray booth, but I reject the arguments as to why not. We have an entire room devoted to woodwork with an extensive dust collection system and sawdust has got to be at least as flammable as any paint. All the issues involved like Space, EPA and Fire Codes were all addressed. Perhaps its a matter of will. I know there was a LOT of volunteer work put into the wood shop. Maybe that is what is missing.
The difference is that sawdust, unlike VOC released from painting, isn’t subject to EPA tracking, and logging of every ounce used. We would have to stay under something like 100 gallons (including all rattle cans and other paint) per year, logging every single use into a federally inspectable log book. If we go over that limit, the pain, licensing, and permits all go up considerably, to the point where we would probably just shut it down for the rest of the year before we hit the limit.
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Is the space (i.e., DMS the corporate entity) liable for damage to vehicles caused by DMS members spray-painting stuff outside?
Arguably if DMS allows it either explicitly or through inaction it is possible. The activity is not permitted by our lease. If someone damages someone else’s vehicle you can bet they are coming after DMS and not hunting down the person doing it.
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You have to be kidding… 100 gallons is 24,000 as in … 24 THOUSAND or 24 * 1000 spray paint cans completely emptied. Someone would have to be doing heavy duty painting 24/7…So we log in and make an estimate of how many and what portions of a spray can…in a log book… Lets do it and see how close we come to 24,000 COMPLETELY EMPTIED cans.
Yeah because if there’s one thing members are known for, it’s their meticulous record keeping and organization.
People can’t even put wire up in e-lab or “remember” to pay for laser time.
I want a paint booth too, but I don’t see it happening.
Edit: if you could get Nick Silva or another person who doesn’t play to manage it, it could work…otherwise, not so much
For the non-moonwalkers among us, a gallon is 128 fluid ounces. If the average spray can contains 12 ounces, then it is about 11 cans in a gallon, not 240!
Is 1100 cans in a year really that much?
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It includes all volatiles: thinner, cleaners, you start a can it, counts unless you are weighing. The record keeping is the killer, as soon as you blow it once, your records are no longer valid and they will presume you are over. How do you prove otherwise … you’ve already shown you can’t document accurately, what value are other records.
If we had a paint booth not all painting would be by cans, so you have the material, thinners and cleaning solvents.
Look at all the simple things that are not done here now. Precise accurate records is a bridge to far for I’m afraid. Members can’t even keep from spraying the concrete and cars - do you think these people are going to bother with keeping careful records? I’d love to have a paint booth at our next place (no chance of it here for lots of reasons) but there would have to very strict controls - and strict severe penalties for failure to comply.
Like anything is actually “Managed” anywhere in the Space. The most basic principle of the Space… and I agree it can be laughable in certain specific people… is that we are all responsible adults and can act appropriately. You’re basically saying that we should judge the entire Space by the exceptions. Let’s first assume that we are law abiding, peace loving, rule following people and worry about the exceptions when they actually happen rather than assume the exceptions are the majority. Just a suggestion.
It won’t be just spray cans. It will be quarts in HVLP spray guns. It will be brush on finishes, because once we have the way to controll the fumes, and keep the finish dust free, it will wind up in the booth.
But where the heck are you finding 1/2 ounce spray cans?
100 gallons is 12,800 ounces, and 12 ounces to a standard can, that is 1067 cans, or 2.9 cans per day, before any of the bulk HVLP or brush on projects.
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Even at that rate… and it is debatable… that’s a LOT of paint cans! and YES! in a year… THAT’S a LOT! Brush on application does not count… Why even add that to the discussion?
Consider this: 1100 cans a year is 3 cans a day…
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How do you know… there will be tht many cans a year? It has never even been tried.
It is because of the exceptions most things are not really manageable at the space. Boiling acid out back on a hotplate after being asked to stop is a serious exception. Leaving a laser cutter going unattended. Boiling acetone in a pot in the eLab. Running your car/truck for 30 minutes at a time with the door closed. Just lots of exceptions that can harm people or burn the place down. Spray painting appears to be something that a few members cannot be entrusted to do well.
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Because we have over 1650 members. 1000 cans can easily be expected from a paint booth in a year with membership numbers like that.
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Case in point, my 10x10 project - something small - took 2 cans of black, 1 can of primer, and partials of 3 other colors. Due to failed versions, multiple coats, and making more than one copy. Adds up quick.
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P.S. I use a table top spray booth meant for model making. Lined it with clear contact paper to control build up. Keeps my workshop free of overspray , at least with smaller items.
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The bottom line is that we actually do not know how many cans would be used by members of the space. It could be as high as people are assuming OR it could be less. We do not have a known number so that is not a disqualifying reason. Anecdotal evidence… I used two cans today… is not a true gauge either, I havn’t emptied a can in years but I don’t think that is valid. Also… from what someone mentioned as a reason for not allowing it… People boiling acid and such… actually makes the argument for a more regimented system. In the end, I don’t really care but the amount of resistance and the lack of faith in the membership makes me suggest that anyone parking a car in the back should buy a car cover. At this point, it can’t be said you didn’t know your car might encounter paint or other chemicals. I won’t do it… but apparently there are plenty who might.
It appears your position, that members have to take into consideration all the things another member might recklessly do and take action to protect themselves from their possible behavior rather than have them be personally responsible for their action damage they may do?
I flat out reject that philosophy.
I believe in personal responsibility. I know, I’m an old fashioned tyrant that has higher expectations for adults than children.
Based on your statements, you’re only counting rattle cans of paint would be used in volume count in a paint booth, what about spray guns? Nor if there were a paint booth there would not be an increase in the number of people painting here. There are a number of folks, myself included, that don’t paint here and take our projects home, but would use paint booth if here, so my assumption is usage would go up, probably significantly.
If a member leaves a mess, doesn’t put a tool back, etc., there aren’t really any regulatory consequences for DMS. Bad behavior with a paint booth such as not recording accurately in a legally required log in order to maintain an exemption does have consequences. I have faith in the vast majority of the members - but it only takes a few that don’t give flip to cause real consequences for everyone at DMS.
What would be your proposed solution with dealing with those people? Just a warning isn’t going to cut it because if caught for non-compliance I wouldn’t expect just a warning from a regulator.
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