Smart Article...:blankspace:

Off Topic
#1

…if you can get past the the liberal use of the word “liberal”. I suggest when you see a label used it be read either 1) as [label-good] where you fill in the one you are, or 2) as [label-bad] where you fill in the one you aren’t.

Best point, among many:

But accusers can paint with very wide brushes. Racist is pretty much the most damning label that can be slapped on anyone in America today, which means it should be applied firmly and carefully. Yet some people have cavalierly leveled the charge against huge numbers of Americans — specifically, [label-bad group].

In their ranks are people who sincerely consider themselves not bigoted, who might be open to reconsidering ways they have done things for years, but who are likely to be put off if they feel smeared before that conversation even takes place.

The point being why even bother to have an intellectual or enlightening conversation with someone who thinks you are a [label-bad]? Or have a conversation with someone you think is a [label-bad]?

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#2

Yikes. Barely made it through the first sentence. I mean, I know we all do it. I’m no exception, but I’m not published by one of the largest news conglomerates in the world, either.


You can not have two best friends. There can be only one. One acceptable way to this sentiment is"…among the better of my friends".
Okay. Trying to finish reading, now…

#3

Nope. “Terrorist”. Being labeled such, with or without evidence, can easily dramatically reduce one’s liberties with little to no recourse.

Being labeled “racist” gets one harassed on Twitter. And revered.

Hardly comparable.

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#4

No argument here. I might say same thing about 'pedophile or ‘rapist’, too. Of course those three are crimes while ‘racist’ is just a smear (when used irresponsibility). If I had been thinking better, I would have replaced “racist” with [label-bad] when citing. My goal was to not be specific or support a single viewpoint or assertion, but to get people thinking about how conservations are prevented before they even have a chance to occur.

#5

Some time before the Republican primaries had seriously kicked off, a friend of mine mused 20 years of calling white people racist is how you get Trump. Watching the Democrats seemingly fail to learn anything other than “voter turnout” about 2016, I wonder if 2018 will be much different.

#6

I’ve read this article so. Many. Times. It’s as old as human kind, I think. For some reason, it’s always The Other Side that is doing the labeling though. Funny how that works out.

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#7

Causes many questions to be asked.

I’m ignorant of the context of the two examples cited in this statement in the article among many of the other statement in the article.

“Liberals denounce “cultural appropriation” without, in many cases, doing the work of persuading people that there is anything wrong with, say, a teenager not of Chinese descent wearing a Chinese-style dress to prom or eating at a burrito cart run by two non-Latino women.”

What’s considered wrong with them(a teenager not of Chinese descent wearing a Chinese-style dress to prom or eating at a burrito cart run by two non-Latino women) ?

#8

This thread can turn in another direction of folks want, I guess, but original intent was not to highlight specifics or give individuals an ideological ax to grind, but to thoughtfully explore how better to reach out and communicate to people with opposing worldviews and ideologies, the assumption being one might want to actually understand and even empathize with alternate views before simplistically or reflexively arguing against them.

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#9

Nothing, and it’s not something ‘liberals’ do. It’s something internet trolls wanting to stir up controversy and gather attention does. It’s the same thing the article is complaining about. They take a small section of X group and erroneously apply it to the whole thing.

I consider myself much more liberal than I do conservative now a days and I don’t give a damn what dress from what culture you wear.

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#10

I’m not a minority, but the general idea is that if you like part of a culture - its art, its food, its fashion or music - you should treat the rest of it with respect. Imitating a culture for fun but not respecting the people is kind of like saying, “I don’t particularly like or understand you, but you made some pretty art and I’m going to copy it.”

There’s a lot of other stuff to it (like what happens when people see the copy more often than the original), but that’s the gist of why it’s wrong. As to his hypotheticals, they’re intentionally written to be neutral. In the real world things are a LOT messier.

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#11

Thanks.

I followed the inked articles in the article and didn’t know why would the term cultural appropriation be associated with the teenage girl in the Chinese dress, nor with the two women earning a livelihood by selling burritos.

I doubt most mainlander Chinese or Taiwanese would give a second thought on the dress or even the pose they assumed for the photo op they posted. Makes me wonder how much of Chinese history did the guy who was cited as an example of the “outcry” know.

With regards to the burrito shop, it generally doesn’t seem to sound any much different than any other business that’s established based something someone saw, heard elsewhere or had been told they would make money off of.
Perhaps not to the possibly exaggerated extent of poking their noses into every kitchen, etc, but then I’ve met people who’ve done things that can be described as doing similar things too and the businesses did well.

As an example, I met a young businessman in China many years ago who opened up a factory making auto parts because a friend of theirs said they would make good money selling it. He had no idea what the parts were for(his words translated to the closest English equivalent) or who eventually bought the parts; just that they would make money; his core business was in an unrelated industry.
Best that could be discerned was they bought up samples and copied them to the best of their abilities and improved what was defective(either in materials or design) in the next closest production run after a defect was discovered or reported by a customer.
It also appeared that that was the common occurrence at the time for the other new manufacturers that I also encountered.
There was lot of push for industrialization and exports at the time which partially is responsible of the air pollution problem that eventually developed in China.

Thanks, that seems to describe both examples best .

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#12

The article works both ways. Swap the labels, and it’s still the stupid stupid things we’re letting ourselves be herded into. Tribalism and Balkanization. We need to work on what we all have in common, not amplify that which divides us.

An aside:

This concept that a culture is owned by anyone is absurd.

An author I know was writing a book about a particular part of the world. Spent a lot of time on a panel discussion about said book about getting permission to write the book. From the culture in question. As if any culture on earth is that monolithic. As if anyone could speak for the whole of a culture.

Humans innovate by copying what others have done, and then going a step farther. Always have.

Calling people out for “cultural appropriation” is nothing more than discrimination with extra steps thrown in.

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#13

Maybe not related, but would anyone consider flashing the V for victory sign in photos as cultural appropriation?
The V of Victory is supposedly credited to Winston Churchill in WW2 but then became popularized in Japan sometime in the late 90s, spread to South Korea and other parts of Asia and into American culture more recently.
Particularly the manner wherein it partially covers/highlights certain parts of the face(at least in Asia).

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#14

@tmc4242 Well said, on all points.

@Ferman :v: Peace out

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#15

@talkers sure thing. Article was interesting and insightful.

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#16

Hear, here!

One side complains about “cultural appropriation.” The other side complains that newcomers are ruining “our” culture by bringing “their” culture and “not assimiliating.” Both sides are wrong.

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#17

lol…

Just don’t reverse it, at least while in the U.K.

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#18

One other issue, of the maaaannnnnyyyyyy, with the concept of supposed “cultural appropriation” is it only ever seems to go in one direction. If I see someone from another country wearing a baseball cap or a (American) football jersey, can I jump them?

The idiotic concept of cultural appropriation was invented for one reason only…to provide a normalized framework to bully/guilt certain people into submission.

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#19

More people should realize this and not fall into the self propagating trap that’s encouraged by media outlets out to get more reader/viewership to enable them to get more of the consumers money.

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#20

I think the biggest issue here I have identified in at least some groups is that there is intense displeasure in having people that have emigrated and immigrated fail to assimilate. By assimilation I mean learning the language of the country and paying taxes. Before there is a large flame war this is not directed at any specific culture or ethnicity. Many of the arguments I have heard present were along the lines that if one couldn’t speak the language how did they expect to do business and not be taken advantage of.

Just another perspective.

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