Stick that on all the doors so people see it on the way out.
I seriously doubt that audio from the woodshop or metal shop would be intelligible, anyway. The noise is overwhelming!
@jast and @wandrson These scenarios you guys depicted, I have seen materialized with real consequences in Controlled Industrial Areas.
1a. An effective solution would be to RFID every station, and every 5 minutes the station/tool forces the user to âchip inâ to continue using the tool/station. I HATE that I have just suggested that, but it would be far more effective, and efficient than back-tracking with cameras.
1b. A different Variation is the âTool Keyâ method. You have a dispenser of keys. You must RFID in the âkioskâ to receive the key that will activate/power the tool/station. Then you must return the key once done with the station. Less painful in some areas, and more in others.
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Your scenarios would require a significant outlay in equipment and/or development time on the part of our volunteers. It may ultimately be nesccessary, but the resultant change in our culture would tend to make me simply go away.
I really prefer the idea of âin your faceâ propaganda and the occasional scarlet letter example.
On that tack, I have created a wiki page to host possible designs for posters that people could print, route, laser, etc. and hang in various appropriate places in the space.
Clean up after yourself reminder posters
I encourage others to add designs. I think a wide variety of designs hung throughout the space have the best chance of reducing the problem.
If you can find someone that offers that as a solution I would love to see it.
I have looked for years and have not found something that does that.
Before you say DIY itâs also been in progress for years soâŚ
It would be really productive if you could come up with an actionable solution here vs just an idea with no way to implement.
Reply to @Robert_Davidson : If by finding someone you mean a commercially available solution, then I am on it. Though, like @wandrson , I understand that if we implemented something like this, it would represent a fundamental change in the culture of DMS. But we are definatly heading down the scarlet letter approach anywayâŚ
http://www.leedsconfidential.co.uk/i/FTH/3D2J_M.jpg
I will post what I can find.
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I think we should be open to the possibility that a fundamental change in the membership âpersonalityâ has occurred as membership has grown so much over last 12 or so months, and therefore some changes to how things are managed should at least be open to consideration as a result. At the very least, it should be acknowledged that peopleâs behavior changes as a population grows and anonymity can act as a shield for some. Chalk it up to growing painsâŚthereâs a lot of anti-social behavior in New York and Chicago; not so much in Mayberry.
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@Awesomer @mblatz @Robert_Davidson
I wasnât really referring to a change in personality for the space, but rather having to implement techniques to control the more anti-social among us causing the use of the tools to be more trouble then they are worth.
Specifically something like this; âAn effective solution would be to RFID every station, and every 5
minutes the station/tool forces the user to âchip inâ to continue using
the tool/station.â
Most of my tool use at the space is with machine shop tools. A fair bit of concentration is needed with these for safety and to obtain accuracy. A 5 minute (or even a 1 hour) âbeepâ would be a problem.
Requiring an active RFID to turn the machine on and off would seem a good compromise if it could be done technically and cost effectively. But all that will really do is tell us basically the same information the security cameras will, with somewhat less effort, in short who used the machine.
While I am open to have my mind changed, I really donât think there is a technological solution to what is essentially a social problem. I really do think heavy propaganda style education and peer pressure are our best (and certainly most cost effective) solutions. With the unfortunate necessity of an occasional banning for those who are simply unwilling or incapable of following basic rules of conduct.
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Pressure mats.
Shock collars.
Maybe itâs time to hire Terry Tate?
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@wandrson, I donât think anyone implied or said you were referring to a change in personality for the space; I certainly didnât. I came up with that all on my own without your helpâŚshocking, isnât it?
But while on the subject, you refer to âan essentially social problemââŚa social problem that is presumably something that has become worse over time since we are seeing more and more of these types of threads and posts that essentially accomplish nothing other than allowing people to either vent or establish some imagined a position of superiority. But if the overall âpersonalityâ of the Space, by which I simply mean the average number of socially/Space beneficial (i.e. âgoodâ) behaviors vs. the non-socially/Space beneficial (i.e. âneutralâ or âbadâ) ones, isnât changing, then what accounts for the growing problem?
Some are advocating for more, and I guess different, signage. Is the problem >>really<< something that cluttering up our walls is going to effectively address (Five Man Electrical Band playing in the background in my head)?
Question: to the extent speeding is a real problem, and it grows as more of a problem as more and more drivers get on the highway and more and more kids begin driving, are more speed limit signs the solution? I think not. People speed >>despite<< the signs, not because there arenât more of them or because they donât have Rosie the Riveter on them. Better socialization can address some of it, but only in the case of people who naturally care about others or what others think of them. The only real effective solution to an increasing âspeedingâ problem does start with more and better education (i.e. orientation), but is completely dependent on more and better policing. Pretty straight forwardâŚ
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As one of the persons advocating for more signage let me address that aspect of your post. Particularly with the imminent addition of our first employees it will be easy (and not all together unreasonable) for members to assume that these future employees are responsible for keeping the space clean. After all due to the work of a small number of volunteers the space currently does get cleaned up. Thinks like the trash cans getting emptied⌠Most members donât see (or notice) when this happens beyond a subconcious realization that such cleaning up must be occurring⌠after all they arenât doing it and the trash cans arenât overflowing.
Education through signage and related approaches does work. How it works is something we could debate, but educational pushes in the past have made measurable differences in how populations behave. Everything from WWII propaganda to reduce consumption, purchase war bonds, etc. Through 70âs/80âs advertising to reduce littering, take care of the environment, etc⌠They produce a cultural change or a change in the group/collective ethos.
Indeed all modern advertising is based upon the same concept. You can change the behavior of groups (not necessarily individuals) with the right type and quantity of message.
Finally lets talk about your speeding example. First speed signs are fairly innocuous, and purely regulatory rather then propaganda or advertising in focus. I have some experience in how/where speed limits came from and why they exist. In short speeding is really not considered a problem by society (or even government). We all âknowâ that there is a roughly 5mph range over the speed limit where the cop will ignore you⌠We have states with laws on the books that you can be ticketed for traveling the speed limit in the left lane since your âblockingâ folks from traveling at speeds in excess of the limit (ie its illegal to make it impossible/difficult for people to speed). Some states have laws that if a certain percentage of the cars on the road are exceeding the posted speed, the posted speed needs to be increased. I donât think it much of a leap to say that from a government perspective, speeding is a revenue source not really something that they wish to stop (in general). I think if you ask most people if âtheirâ speeding is a problem they would tell you they are not being âunsafeâ, while they may say others speeding is a problem.
I donât think you would find any member (and certainly no one who should remain a member) who would say their leaving of a mess is âno problemâ. I suspect the most likely response will be to provide excuses as to why they left the mess, which itself is an admission that they understand the basic problem, The sign age I and others are talking about serve as both a constant reminder as well as a means of raising the general community awareness of a problem that most donât really understand because other volunteers keep cleaning up after people (ie, Committee Chair = Janitor).
Now I know you are one of those people who dedicate a fair bit of your time in the space to cleaning up after others. Even if every member did clean up after themselves we will always need volunteers to do some cleaning. Simply because things like trash cans need emptying, venting gets clogged, etcâŚ
BTW, I havenât forgotten our conversation about the dovetail guide. I am looking for the book I mentioned and as soon as I have a spare moment I will send you a copy of it and my design we discussed.
Yes, so far that has been my experience. I come in about 2 days a week to pickup the eLab. I know I have witnessed @AlexRhodes spending a lot of hours organizing, cleaning up and putting away tools in the woodshop.
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I found a perfectly good electrolytic cap on the floor yesterday and put it back into the stores. Does that count? 
BTW, eLab is very well organized and serves as a model for the rest of us!
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That counts as most excellent member behavior. There is still so much work to do in the eLab.
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My friend and I cleaned up parts of a defunct box fan last night that someone tore apart on the electronics bench and left half the case on the bench along with the screwdriver they used to tear it apart. (breaking my arm patting ourselves on the backâŚhehehe)
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We troubleshot the fan that was half in the trashâŚit was burnt wiring inside the motor in case the original troubleshooter is paying attention to this thread and was wondering what caused it to stop workingâŚ
Mostly glad to know Iâm not the only âtrash picking hoboâ who just âwants to see whatâs wrong with itââŚ
OCD to the rescue!
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