No aerosol powered spray paint is to be used at dallas makerspace, inside or out

What I was getting at is the rule might be throwing baby out with bathwater. Clearly some small, judicious use of (spray) Cermark would not trigger the FM or anyone else.

Maybe spray stuff, e.g. Cermark, or a spray clear coat on top of a painting, could be allowed for class or ‘office hours’ purposes, for instance? I.E. under instructor supervision. This example of rule would ensure that spray whatever was occurring in very limited and controlled situations. In other words, we could save the baby.

(sniffle) Think of the children!

You could always keep a can and go use it down the street’s parking lot. I’m talking cermark not spray paint

1 Like

Maybe the nearest cemetery*? Not going to make anyone deader there :skull:


*I hear everyone is just dying to get into one of those places…

1 Like

Dad joke… snickers

1 Like

I’d be interested in reading the code… I’m thinking it’s more about controlling graffiti than controlling painting of a bicycle or other project.

However, these things are usually poorly written and overly broad.

1 Like

We certainly aren’t “home use” and as far as I can tell, there are really only two categories. Home use or business use. We will certainly fall under the business use category until a legal definition can be proven otherwise.

That said, I’m guessing that OSHA isn’t the harder hurdle, it’s going to be Carrollton Code Enforcement. We are already on their radar.

We MAY be able to claim a De Minimus exemption under TCEQ rules, but it’s going to take some lawyer-ing for sure.

https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=30&pt=1&ch=116&rl=119

1 Like

Still would be good to know exactly what the regulation is. After all, if all businesses are forbidden from using aresol paint, then how do location services mark utility locations under streets, alleys, and sidewalks?

It’s probably ok with a license. Like, as a business you can’t in most jurisdictions use pesticides. A licensed exterminator can, however.

1 Like

oh ye gods, we’re becoming Kalifornia aren’t we?

3 Likes

if there actually is such a “code” - doubt there is
but if there is - one could in effect walk a little to the south and they would be in Farmers Branch yet still be in the parking lot and perform their “spray painting” activities.
They wouldn’t be "in Carrollton nor in the Makerspace - yet they would still be in the parking lot…
If so - I’d suggest doing so after normal business hours - i.e. full moon for lighting, skeleton crew, etc.

1 Like

Are we actually going to get the code posted here? Or are we just cowering in fear of another phantom?

4 Likes

I looked and looked… hadn’t been able to find it yet.

1 Like

Good evening All,

I don’t know if this will help or hurt, but I got to thinking, maybe this is not a “City of Carrollton” law/rule/ordinance, but a State level requirement. Doing a little googling, i found the following link

De Minimis for Air Emissions

which is only 1 of a couple of links on the following site

Surface Coating: Compliance Resources

While i think that given the amount of emissions that we emit as an organization/business we would fall within the “De Minimis” category, the reporting would be impossible since we would need to keep track of each and every use of such emissions. Per the link above, one of the methods of doing so is invoices/purchase orders for the organization/business and since we are a volunteer organization and don’t have centralized purchasing, this would immediately disqualify us from this categorization, which would push us into some other tier where we would have to pay to release at or below a certain level while still being required to “verify” our daily/yearly emissions. Hopefully I have added to and not diverted from the topic at hand. Everyone have a good evening.

2 Likes

The post in the BOP minutes didn’t have any context or details, and was vague, if not inaccurate. I’m not contesting the rule, but getting by-in is way more effective if the reasons are presented. Did someone get cited? Did someone check the law just to see if it was illegal. Was there an article in the paper? Did the …(said in a stage whisper) fire marshall…mentions it on his last visit.

Whoever initiated the new rule, can you shed some light on this, please?

4 Likes

Tagging @board_of_directors ought to get to “whoever”, but apprently doesn’t…
@Kriskat30 @dr_cee @Diplomat @Photomancer and @LukeStrickland ought to get “whomever” tagged, though, right?

2 Likes

Just to throw some more hearsay into the mix, the reason that I heard that we couldn’t have a paint booth is because we’d have to keep a log. Apparently, the “don’t care” limit is about 1 car’s worth of painting. After that, City of Carrollton (maybe???) wants a log that can be reviewed. And, given our issues with enforcing much of anything across the board, 24/7, an accurate log wouldn’t be a possiblity.

Maybe if we got the shop steward, but then we’d have to be able to lock up the paint booth when that person wasn’t on site.

Sorry to not be able to provide a specific rule/law/code.

1 Like

Spraying with rattle cans vs a paint booth is a big commitment. @Robert_Davidson did lots of research in systems that could track usage in a paint booth environment.

Here is the Email I received from the TCEQ which is the responsible for the laws.

@trurobertson did an accurate recap above it comes down to tracking.

Personally I am not sure why people think it is impossible to track consumption. At it’s simplest form it’s a log. If a paintbooth was going to happen I had planned to use an automated paint mixer and require everyone use it this would track all usage of paint.

It’s also important to remember these regulations don’t just apply to spray paint.

Finally even if we go over the de minimis requirements it needs to be tracked and responsibly sprayed and disposed of it’s not some sky is falling regulations it requires tracking and minor modification to process vs what we have now is an outright ban.

"Hello,

As per our conversation this afternoon, there are a couple of authorization mechanisms available for the paint booth at your Makerspace. TCEQ permitting for surface coating is largely dependent on the proposed usage rates and the application method.

From our discussions, it appears as though the painting will likely be covered as a de minimis source, which does not require registration. A de minimis facility is a facility or source that meets the condition of one or more of the paragraphs of the De Minimis Rules below.

(http://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac%24ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=30&pt=1&ch=116&rl=119) I have also attached the De Minimis Facilities List, which includes manual application of coatings (e.g., rollers, brushes, and spray bottles) and aerosol-propelled organic liquids (e.g., spray paint).

30 TAC § 116.119 De Minimis Facilities and Sources

a) Facilities or sources that meet the conditions of one or more of the paragraphs of this subsection are considered by the commission to be de minimis, which means that registration or authorization prior to construction is not required:

(1) categories of facilities or sources included on the list entitled “De Minimis Facilities or Sources;”

(2) facilities or sources at a site which, in combination, use the following materials at no more than the rate prescribed in subparagraphs (A) - (F) of this paragraph:

(A) cleaning and stripping solvents, 50 gallons per year;

(B) coatings (excluding plating materials), 100 gallons per year;

© dyes, 1,000 pounds per year;

(D) bleaches, 1,000 gallons per year;

(E) fragrances (excluding odorants), 250 gallons per year;

(F) water-based surfactants/detergents, 2,500 gallons per year;

If for some reason, the coating usage rates are above the thresholds listed in the De Minimis rules, an authorization will be required through a Permit By Rule (PBR § 106.433) or a New Source Review (NSR case-by-case) permit. Each of the authorization types has its own requirements; I can provide more information about these registrations if you determine that the operations will not be covered as de minimis.

I would also encourage you to contact the Regional Office with any questions related to enforcement or recordkeeping. They may be reached via phone at 817.588.5800 or https://www.tceq.texas.gov/assistance. Should you have any questions, please also feel free to contact me via phone or email. Thanks!"

Attached File

De Minimis Facilities List.pdf (73.0 KB)

7 Likes

I think I’m missing something. If we are well below the threshold, why do we have a complete moratorium in regards to aerosols or whatever. I just see that we dont have to register, nothing says we cant be using rattle cans. I’m sure you know quite a bit more about this than I do from your discussions with them, I’m trying to fill in the blanks.

It’s a great question what I believe to be happening is something on the local Carrollton level and I am speaking from the state level. What I believe is on one hand is city fire code while on another hand we are talking about the TCEQ regulation. The TCEQ absolutely allows rattle cans - the city of Carrollton maybe not. Though I would love to see the regulation they are using as plenty of companies use spray paint in day to day business.

1 Like