Multicam and lathe basics will still be separate classes, and will more than likely be grandfathered until new equipment is purchased that requires additional training. These classes are given/maintained by their respective special interest groups.
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I agree.
How many current members have gone through the training and have access to the tools? *serious question, please provide that number.
Now this many members (+ all the new members joining wanting access) will have to compete for spots in three separate classes to regain the access they currently have.
Will classes continue to be capped at 5-6 students making it even more difficult to retrain hundreds of members efficiently?
Since this includes a cutting board project what will the class fee be? Will DMS be converting the materials?
Also what are the plans for proper notification to the membership? A large number do not use Talk and Iām sure many will be very upset to make the trip only to find out they no longer have access.
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Good to know my lathe basics also caries over, though many lathe projects include at least band saw use for cutting blanks, and that apparently is an undefined item currently.
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We often bake the bandsaw into the Lathe basics 101, and in our pen making classes we touch on the drill press. Maybe we have another WS class that is lathe/bandsaw/drill press?
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Class limit is determined by the teacher of the class. I limit my classes to 4 students to make sure every student has the help they need and ample time to get it in the scheduled allotment. I will more than likely put on some free or low-cost, larger demo only classes that donāt include the cutting board take-away so that we can get users into the new shop without a bottleneck. These classes could possibly be 15-20 students each and may finish even faster than the regular ones since they are demo only. Watch for these classes to be posted closer to the expansion rollout.
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Wouldnāt taking the old 101 qualify you better than a large ājust watching classā?
I ask because if the solution to not grandfathering people is to create a rubber stamp class, then Iād rather just have a grandfather myself.
Iām all for the RFID, but thereās no sense in retraining however many approved users you already have if the problem is unsafe people. You can just remove their access (which was already stated as the intent).
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I should start off by saying that Iām in favor of this sort of thing. The syllabus you outlined doesnāt seem to me to be able to be taught in an hour and a half. You could probably teach them one-on-one that quickly, but Iām skeptical of multiple people being able to learn a number of tools and complete the edge glued portion of a cutting board in 90 minutes.
The classes outlined are pretty ambitious, but certainly doable. I think it is short sighted to try and increase the number of offerings without including a path for those who have completed class(es) previously and are familiar with the tooling. This also increases the barrier to entry exponentially, as 4.5 hours over 3 class āperiodsā is significantly more difficult to coordinate and attend compared to a single 4.5 hour class in peopleās personal lives (speaking for myself and likely numerous others).
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Regarding the bandsaws, I can see that as a class in and of itself. With 3 different bandsaws of various size we should go over which to use for what case. How to re-saw a board/log, cutting curves, safe usage, etc need to be covered. A fairly simple project to walk away with is a small bandsaw box.
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All these are valid points. If the structure needs reformatting then it will be done. The idea is to make sure that every user has an acceptable amount of training on all the tools in the woodshop and that the hodge-podge of accesses that have been granted for whatever reason over the past several years is cleaned up and refined. More than half of the woodshop has never required training or RFID permissions to access, and that is a problem going forward. Four people can absolutely mill and glue up a cutting board in an hour and a half. The one that concerns me is the shaping class, which may last closer to two hours. A main goal during the expansion is to have ALL of the tools that have been damaged from severe misuse repaired as close to perfect as we can get them. We are in a position to either allow the misuse and abuse to continue by allowing everyone to maintain status-quo, or improve the quality and longevity of the woodshop by requiring everyone to retrain or certify on the new tools. Keep in mind that close to half of the woodshop has been or will be replaced with new equipment from when I took over as chair to when expansion is supposed to complete. There are several new tools that are in the purchasing planning stages as well. If you want to have the woodshop moved as-is, we can let all the users thru without extra training, but the new tools and attention to calibration will stop. I canāt imagine that anyone wants to deal with these setbacks, so devoting some more time towards becoming a more community/shared workspace conscious woodworker by taking more time to study your craft can only help accomplish our mission. If you have an issue making sure you are doing things correctly, you are probably one of the people who spend their time ignoring the rules to begin with. I donāt want to spend time rescinding peoples permissions when the new area opens for business, as that would create the same bottle-neck being referenced earlier in this thread. Iād much rather spend the time making sure everyone who is granted access to the new woodshop has been properly trained and is capable of using the machines without safety violations or damage. In other words, I want to teach and assist, not punish and remove. If you are unable to see the benefit of putting in some extra time to enhance your skills and the upkeep of the woodshop, there are a variety of hand tools available for general use in the main workshop area.
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One more vote for grandfathering-in or some kind of fast-pass for those of us whoāve been using woodworking machinery for years. I have neither time nor interest in a cutting board.
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Huh? If we donāt agree with you on retraining, we wonāt buy any more tools? Iām really not sure thatās how this worksā¦
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It is a well known fact at DMS that new tools require new training. We are simply restructuring the training curriculum to include all the new tools that have been purchased and are to come. Additionally, there is little sense in maintaining and calibrating tools that are constantly abused and/or misused. The new router table that was just installed had pieces on it broken the day after it was installed due to improper use. Iām sure you can understand how things like this helped us come to our decision. We are attempting to make the training more comprehensive and accessable to all members. If you donāt like this decision or others, it would be a good idea to come to a committee meeting and have a voice in the future plans of the woodshop. This topic passed with a unanimous vote at the last one, so we will be moving forward with it. As it stands now, not retraining will only result in not having access.
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To extend this line of thinking, Iām assuming anyone whoās previously taken the āWS Basicsā classes (1-3) in the past would be exempt from any class fees for these equivalent remedial WS Basics classes now required of all members?
Iām all for a refresher, but perhaps you can implement a ārolling recertification protocolā.
For example, nobody loses their access for 4 months once the new classes are mandated and started. Then anyone who still hasnāt retaken the newly required basics classes would then lose their WS access after this 4 month window closes.
This way everyone gets what they need out of this new requirement. A 4 month āopenā window isnāt going to increase risk substantially over what exists today, and WS will still get to re-certify everyone with little-to-no interruption in member access during that 4 month āopenā window.
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Thatās a good idea Scott. I believe that was our intent from the start. The open window is from the start of the classes until the opening of the new woodshop area. That way we have lots of names on the new directory when the new RFID system is implemented. The window to aquire the new training should be about 2 months, maybe a little longer since the woodshop will be one of the last committees to move. In the meantime, all members will be able to use the all of the tools that their current permissions allow. The fees associated with the new classes have not been finalized, but the Iām fairly certain that the cutting board and box-making material will need to be at least partially covered by the student. Consumables costs and class fees will definitely be under discussion at the next meeting.
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Iām assuming you mean the December 27 meeting. Any chance yāall kept minutes or an attendance list? I looked for it but canāt find it posted on talk or on the wiki.
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Thanks Mark. You will likely need at least a three month window to āgraduateā the hard core WS users and as many of the casual users as possible. That assumes multiple certification classes scheduled each week during that 3 month(-ish) cycle.
Agree on the consumables component.
Yup, right now they are in my member folder. I will post them as soon as I am have time. You can take a look at them there if you like in the meantime.
Some type of grandfathering would be desired for basic woodshop users. I have been a member since 2011 and this would be the 3rd time I would have to take basics training again just to maintain my access. I only use the woodshop 3-4 times a year and forcing me to retake 3 classes to drill some holes makes DMS less useful to me.
I appreciate were you are going but donāt punish 2100+ members when the problem is likely 20-30 people. New gear = new training for sure.
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Iād venture to conservatively guesstimate that at least 10-20% of the WS community needs refresher/remedial training. Including me. I would not feel comfortable using the jointer and the planer without remedial training.
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I would also like to reiterate that WS1, WS2 and WS3 will total about 4.5 hours of woodshop training, and the current Woodshop 101 and 102 add up to the same 4.5 hours. The main difference is that more time will get to be spent focusing on each tool and you will come away from the class with an actual project. I would tend to agree that the band saws should be in a class of their own, just like the lathes.
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