New Pay to Play model

DMS General
#42

I was thinking more in terms of some of the other classes. I am unaware of anything specifically one way or the other regarding Multicam classes. Are you sure that the instructor doing these is doing them through Eventbrite? I realize you probably have the ways to check that – I don’t.

It was the $20 classes that probably were free previously that started this thread, so that’s what I’ve been holding as my example in my discussion.

For me, I teach in 4 areas, so each area gets one class a month on honorarium. MIG Welding costs students $10 for materials. If I found that we had need for a 2nd class, I’d drop the $10 into the “pay DMS” slot. I’ve got a Square, so I’m not trying to figure out Eventbrite.

As a matter of fact, I’ve got my eyes closed and my fingers crossed for February. I’ve taught 4 classes already that were marked for honorarium, but that was all before the BoD decision for 4. Largely, that was because the 1st two were for Sewing, and I’ve had trouble getting sewing classes to “make”. I put up the 2 welding classes before I’d had a chance to see if I had 2 full (and full attendance) sewing classes, so I went ahead and marked both welding classes for honorarium, figuring that it would come out in the wash if it turned out I had 4 classes that “made”. Ceramics got the short stick – I charged the students.

I’m not sure what you meant by “ability to remove students”. Classes weren’t making because too many people had signed up who didn’t intend to show up. Are you suggesting that the instructor should have reviewed the rest of his classes for the no-shows and yanked their attendance in the later classes? I’ve not particularly had that issue, so I wouldn’t know how to do that.

#43

I do, since the former chair explicitly told me he had been stockpiling committee funds because he didn’t like dealing with the board either. Something like $45k was sitting in the woodshop budget, and with the two or three classes that were scheduled each week, that took a really long time to acrue. Factor that in with the months long wait to get access to the woodshop and that we had several hundred members needing access and it isn’t hard to see why the costs jumped up so much.
Also, during my first period as procurement officer, I was told by chairs and board members alike to file everything bought for the woodshop under consumable tooling since it all wears out anyway.
You should not try to put your busiest and slowest committees under the same management model unless you’re willing to scale every aspect of that model commensurate with committee asset usage and growth.

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#44

What does the amount in the woodshop budget have to do with the rate you started blowing through cash? Let me make it easy for you: nothing. One has nothing to do with the other.

Woodshop’s capabilities in 2019 vs 2018 did not change significantly. They certainly didn’t double. Under your steady hand and brilliant training, the amount of money it consumed, just in consumable tooling, did. Tell all the stories you want, but if you think that’s good management, you’re just… wrong.

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#45

So which one is it? Was I earning too much for the committee (which is directly linked to how much I earned for myself) or was I spending too much? I remember the saying that used to float around of “if you want more tools, teach more classes”. I would think the committees who earn the most should naturally be able to spend the most. While the capabilities may not have doubled, the average age of the tools was reduced by more than half. Interesting how you like to steer discussions with incomplete facts.
New combo sander
New drill press
New spindle sander
New bandsaw
New bandsaw
New router table
New router lift table
New router motor
New tablesaw
Several thousand dollars in replacement motors
Just to name a few of the ways my “gaming the system” and “careless spending” has “damaged” the woodshop.
When I came on as vice chair I tried to help with the class backlog as best as I could, but the machines kept breaking. Many needed major repair or replacement. I fixed the problem that was presented to me. I challenge you to find a member who has put in more work (paid or volunteer) than I to run a single committee.
Would any ACTUAL accountants or economists care to chime in? Maybe a member of the DnO who actually uses the woodshop? Boots on the ground intel is always more reliable than ignorant orders barked from the control tower. Being in a position of authority doesn’t make you right. It just makes you look worse when you’re wrong. :wink:

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#46

I just want to apologize to the members for my comments and outlandish statements in my response to this original post. It’s NOT in my nature to be as selfish as I have been here recently, and I do recognize this… I’m just going through some tough times right now. I’ll get get over it and in turn become a good hearted person again. Peace

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#47

True Beth, glass used and tools that constantly walk off will have to be restocked. Jen gives back to GlassWorks 20 of every 50 she receives. Her classes usually have good attendance.

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#48

I’m with Mark on this…He could be working his own projects rather than certifying people in the woodshop. Railing on teachers for making money for their time is BS.

@jmeinel @agvet

Guys I get that it can be expensive to take classes and it seems like the teachers are raking it in, but seriously…How many members can even state they sweep up after themselves or heaven forbid try to clean a little more than the mess they made? Even $150/ hr is a very fare rate for teaching, if the teacher is a truly skilled at what they are teaching and the student walks away with knowledge and signed off on the tool(s)…Bottom line is, if class cost pisses you off teach for free and guess what eventually supply/demand works itself out…Until you are loaded up teaching can we really complain about class cost?

If every member truly volunteered by cleaning or repairing for 15 minutes after they complete whatever they were doing at the space that visit, the space would get better by the day…So if anyone is bitching about teachers making cash for teaching people…We should see you teaching FREE classes and/or cleaning, more than just the mess you made, before you leave.

I try to encourage the desired volunteer behavior by example…I don’t teach, but I usually try to schedule enough time to sweep and take out a trash can or two before I leave EVERY visit. If you find that not to be the case, call me out. I am usually the guy in a black hat, grey shirt, and safety glasses…Yeah I own some grey…

Side note…There is a guy Paul (??), he teaches Lathe classes, who is a kick-ass guy and helped another guy Tom in the woodshop a few days ago cut some 5"x5"x48" timber on the bandsaw…It was truly awesome to see a member helping a stranger, also a member. Just to be helpful…Truly the behavior we should be praising and replicating.

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#49

its @prl2018, and he’s the personification of being Excellent.

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#50

Members do this and volunteers do this and we thank them for it. I noticed someone turning a bowl the other day. Not only did they sweep under the lathe, dusted off the equipment around the lathe, they put the debris in is own trash bag so as to not fill up the trashcans in the Woodshop. Then they took it out to the dumpster, most excellent! We need to see how we encourage the “customers” to do this.

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#51

ditto. I was in the machine shop last weekend and several people were working. Both cleaned up their area when done. No reminder was necessary. I looked up from what I was doing and said “Thank you for doing that”. Both appreciated the acknowledgement. that’s all it takes sometimes to keep people doing the right thing.

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#52

Financials can be skewed to prove anyone’s point. One expensive repair could’ve been on the outs for many months before it finally reared it’s head bad enough - that’s the vacuum pump on the Multicam… and now the spindle bearings. You really want to count something that is a long term wear or failure item to suddenly count against a chair?

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#53

Not really, they’re just numbers, they don’t care much about the who wants them to say a certain thing, they just document fact.

Do you honestly think that long term wear accounts for those expenses increasing by $21,000 in a single year? Does a well-running woodshop of our size take more than $39k per year in consumables? All those items that Mark listed above aren’t even in this category.

#54

Did you look to see the cost of that item to repair the Multicam?

#55

Yes, I know what it cost, I fast tracked the approval- twice. Once for the vacuum motor, once for the spindle. Neither of those items are in this class or included in these figures.

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#56

I see that you’re not in finance or accounting. Granted, we’re not doing accruals or otherwise manipulating our numbers, but even GAAP lets accounting tweak numbers a lot.

I accept that DMS isn’t tweaking our books, but it is totally within the scope of normal accounting to do so.

#57

Nobody said a thing about tweaking books or manipulating numbers. Numbers can be used to prove anyone’s point is all that was said.

Please do not read more into this than what was said. We do not need this thread going down THAT rat hole.

#58

Beth, I have 4-year degrees in both finance and accounting. If you accept that DMS isn’t tweaking our books, then you understand that in the context of what was said, this statement isn’t germaine to the issue. Raymond was talking about the cynical view, that he apparently holds, that you can’t trust the numbers to reflect reality, and I assure you both, that you can when it comes to how much money this organization has spent.

#59

Okay. But – you can understand that in general, one learns to mistrust published financials, since so many public companies obscure details. All within the law, but still to a degree that causes laymen to distrust them. Throw in a few scandals (I realize Enron is old news, but that leaves a lingering bad taste), and people’s cynicism has a root.

#60

Distrust in objective, observable, measurable reality is nothing new. Mercifully - despite this supposed widespread mistrust in financial reporting - our financials are markedly clearer than the average 10-K filing.

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#61

No. It was the cynical view that numbers can me manipulated to fit any view you want to take when talking down to members.

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