New Pay to Play model

DMS General
#1

I’m asking because I am curious, and not because I have an opinion either way. I see more classes showing up on the calendar with a cost. Some are introductory, some are not. Payment is being made outside of the Makerspace ecosystem.

My curiosity is if this is the new norm and the direction for the Makerspace education culture? Is this intended to replace all of the certification and introductory classes? Do the committees receive honorariums? Does the teacher receive an honorarium in addition to the fees charged? I’m not advocating it is right or wrong, but I remember payments going through the Makerspace committees and board in the past.

#2

Clayton,

last year it was revealed that we had a negative cash flow caused by an excessive amount of honorarium payments (IIRC, up to $35k/mo). Not going into the debate about whether a teacher should be able to make 5 figures a year off DMS teaching (there were those that did), we ended up having to place a cap on honorarium expenses.

Under the current conditions (which have been raised since the initial limitations), teachers can receive honorarium up to 3 classes. Outside of honorarium classes, they are welcome to charge on eventbrite for their own initiative.

Eventbrite classes are not required by the committees, but rather many teachers that would not otherwise teach use it to cover their time set aside for teaching.

For example, I don’t charge for metal shop classes outside of materials, but I don’t prohibit teachers from charging for their time if they are throwing up classes beyond the three that get paid honorarium however I try to encourage raw volunteerism whenever possible.

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#3

So I’ve been wondering about this too and have been seeing a large number of classes being offered for high amounts (including sign off classes). I understand the limit of 3 a month, but my issue is that in some areas, there’s only 1-2 people who have the knowledge to teach a specific class. I think there should be a process where a teacher can get a waiver of the 3 class limit if there aren’t other teachers teaching certain skills. That way it’s still controlled so 1 teacher doesn’t teach 50 classes a month. We have lost A LOT of good classes since this change and I’ve seen numerous people only teach classes where they charge through Eventbrite. They don’t teach a single class that doesn’t have an extra charge paid directly to them. None of their classes are on honorarium. If we don’t want people making 5-figure salaries, we need to control the Eventbrite classes too.

For example, there are a ton of laser classes on the calendar now taught by 1 person and every single one is $20. Each of those classes used to be free! I like the person who is the teacher, but I don’t agree with the $20 charge. They have 14 classes in just the next 10 days at $20/person! :astonished: That’s insane! :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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#4

FYI - as of last BoD Mtng 2/16/20 the number of honorarium paid classes per teacher was raised to 4.
Under EMERGENCY ITEMS
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20200216

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#5

What is the incentive for members to teach for honorarium instead of charging their students? Seems like charging for classes is better for the teacher, especially the good ones.

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#6

And that’s the problem! Teachers can make a ton more money charging separately for classes and foregoing the honorarium. There’s zero incentive to choose the honorarium. :woman_shrugging:

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#7

If your motive for teaching is to generate an income, there’s not much incentive to teach for honorarium.

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#8

I have been monitoring the Nation of Makers FB group, and splitting class earnings with the hosting Makerspace and the teacher on a 50/50 split is fairly common. While this has been done at the teacher/committee level previously (funded by DMS), I wonder if an across the board split for classes taught (regardless of how the class fees are generated) makes more sense.

Those DMS funds could be then used to fund more classes perhaps.

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#9

So at my former makerspace in DC, they way they did classes was percentage based. The teacher charged what they wanted and it was like an 80/20 split (the teacher got 80%). The problem with that was classes got very expensive. :money_with_wings: I couldn’t afford to take classes because they added up.

My favorite thing about DMS when I joined was the number of classes and how most were free or $5. Very few cost more than that. I’ve learned skills since joining that I’ve always wanted to learn because the classes were offered for free. That’s all changed now. Teaching classes at a non-profit makerspace shouldn’t be a money-making venture.

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#10

Makes sense for the Makerspace. Not sure it makes sense for those for whom teaching at DMS is their job.

That’s crazy talk! :wink:

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#11

It changes the paradigm for sure toward to more collaborative, ‘giving back’ culture.

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#12

It shouldn’t be a source of income. If we changed to a percentage splitting model, I think each area would need to determine a max amount that a teacher could charge so that classes didn’t get too expensive. We want anyone to still be able to take a class without it becoming cost prohibitive over multiple classes.

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#13

I think as you previously mentioned the percentage can get pretty expensive for the students. I don’t really like the pay to play for required equipment. I understand when things cost money. Just that could be very discouraging to find all the required classes cost prohibitive.

And setting a price limit on classes could be tough. Specialty classes with nice materials can be quite pricey, and that might prevent them. Unless you’re meaning a price limit on the required classes only?

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#14

Is that not the way it’s done currently? Are teachers keeping 100% of the revenue while utilizing the DMS space and wear and tear to the machines? What a deal.

That kinda sparks another question. If we have these classes utilizing DMS’s resources, say a machine in the woodshop or a laser, but not giving back to DMS, do we still have to make way for the classes if we were planning on using that machine for a long time? Seems that they’d be essentially independent, teaching the class outside of the committee basically.

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#15

Very valid questions and observations. Yes, Honorarium classes have the split I was referring to previously where the teacher and the committee split the DMS outlay.

To my knowledge, it does not enforce a split for classes managed externally (e.g., Eventbrite).

Any classes taught at DMS in which all the revenue from the class goes to the teacher, should immediately call into question (A) the use of DMS tools and the reservation of said tools at the expense of non-class-attending members. Arguments on both sides for why this may or may not be good (e.g., training members is always a good thing vs. tool-required vs. optional classes)

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#16

Afaik this is up to the teacher. I know some teachers doing a 50/50 split

#17

I’m talking about a max for each particular type of class. So if someone wants to do a specialty class, the head of an area (say ceramics) would say a class utilizing the wheel for X amount of time could charge up to $X. Obviously, details would have to be figured out, but I’m not a fan of teachers deciding cost on their own in a percentage model. That’s how costs can skyrocket because different people think their time is worth different amounts.

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#18

There are some things that use the same general equipment though, and cost quite a bit more. If I use cheap pine lumber to make something like a cutting board versus getting cherry wood and walnut and making a nice chest. The same general equipment is use for cutting. its more about the materials.

In science depending on what PCR experiment I do, it could vary the cost significantly. Still using the PCR but some of that cost more than other things.

*So far since I have been chair we havent had any expensive classes, since right now I am trying to appeal to more people. But when I get a good routine I would like to add some nice one off classes.

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#19

So what I’m talking about doesn’t include extra material fees. I get some materials are more expensive and cost the instructor extra money. As long as it’s spelled out how much of the fee is for materials in the class description, I’m fine with that.

My favorite classes that involve outside materials are those that give a list of required items so I have the option of bringing my own. This is done in some sewing classes. I can either buy materials from the instructor or bring my own. And I know other classes do that too. I usually bring my own so I can make the item how I want during the class.

#20

I have a question, during the open tours are potential new members being fully explained the logistics of this conversation at hand? The “Full” classes, the amount of the new rates for the training of these classes and the classes (as I currently look in the event calendar to the day of Saturday July 25th.) in which are not being offered. (I.E. machine shop.) This would be a suprise and a large let down for me signing up to become an “excellent” member and a future maker. We all need to truly think about this…

What’s next for our current members offering a reservation to a full class to the highest bidder?