Hello,
My name is Nick Tinney, I am on the advisory committee for the GJMakerspace located in Grand Junction, CO.
We have now been open just over a year and growing. We currently have a few 3D printers and just got a laser cutter.
It is now time to start looking at metalworking, woodworking, and other more dangerous tools.
We are looking at some small hobby CNCs and might settle on 1-2 Shapeoko CNCs. In the past I have taught interns and green engineers how to use a big Haas CNC. Has anyone had experience with the CNC from Shapeoko and would you recommend this for a Makerspace. We would like to start small to teach the concepts, at the same time, use what we learn from general use and apply it to a Tormach or similar CNC in the future.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Nick
The Shapeoko is kind of a router and I would suppose that anything it can do the laser will do better. I donât have any experience with it, but plenty of others have and Iâm sure theyâll weigh in.
On the metal side we have an Emco, a HAAS, and a Bridgeport. One of the things that got skipped was an X2 size machine. I bought one for myself in the interim ($300 on craigslist) and have been really happy with it. Iâve got about $1000 in it so far with all the Little Machine Shop upgrades: belt drive, R8 spindle, metal gears, air spring Z, rotab, and tooling. Itâs safe, capable, and CNCâable. Iâll recommend it as entry level tool because it gets people thinking about whatâs really important, setups and fixturing, without breaking the bank on tooling and replacement parts.
Our entry level mill was the Emco PC50 CNC. Even without itsâ reliability issues, it was going to be a hard road from zero to CNC machining for most folks. My X2 has less power (thatâs a feature) and a larger envelope.
So I guess I AM recommending the Shapeoko(router) as a CNC learning tool, because I feel like itâs better to separate the two processes for beginners. I learned CNC on a router and then moved into machining, so maybe Iâm biased.
So I guess I AM recommending the Shapeoko(router) as a CNC learning tool, because I feel like itâs better to separate the two processes for beginners. I learned CNC on a router and then moved into machining, so maybe Iâm biased.
On the other hand, there is Mr. Frank ScrantonâŚ
JAG âUpdating Directoryâ MAN
P.S. Nick, if you want to reach the Machine Shop more directly, you can select that as a Topic for the thread when you first create it. (there is a pull down menu to the right of the Subject field at itâs about 10 categories down)
It depends on what you want to do. If the object is to increase membership, and therefore income, then focus on building a woodshop. The cost barrier is less, and its probably the busiest shop by a good margin here in Dallas. And it enables so many other types of projects as well.
If metal is your need, then my advice would be to hold off on CNC, and invest in a Bridgeport knee mill, and a shop sized lathe. In most cases, for one-off parts theyâre faster, theyâre robust and easier to maintain, less prone to damage from oopsies, and provide a needed basis for advancing into CNC machining. Theyâre pretty cheaply acquired over craigslist or whatever. CNC is awesome stuff, but if youâre new to machining, the barrier to entry is very high, training times are long, and consequently, our Haas mill isnât the busiest tool in the shop by far.
I totally love your 'Space! (I visited it last year, while visiting family⌠The Western Slope is where my heart calls home! <3 )
If yâall are still in the same space (across the tracks, near the river), then I would def start with the Shapeoko because it takes up a lot less space! I havenât used our Shapeoko yet myself; but, I know members have been able to use it with minimal instruction with little to no problem (after a few hardware / config issues were squared away, since we had the kitâŚ).
That being said, def listen to the guys who have already chimed in, as they have had more experience with the tools theyâve mentionedâŚ
OT:
Hereâs a couple of our pixâŚ
'n we are even in one of yâallâs, too! heheâŚ
For CAM on the Shapeoko, VCarve (what we use on our 5âx10â Multicam) now has a âdesktopâ version that limits output to 2âx2â. At $350, I think itâd be a pretty good option.
I havenât personally tried it out, but it has a grbl (G-Code controller Shapeoko uses) post processor.
If you want to grow into other areas, donât forget the creative arts. We have a new and active Jewelry/small metals group. Jewelry folks often need access to larger equipment. We are planning on a class that will use the laser to prepare the dies and the hydraulic press to die form metal for jewelry.
Hi Lisa,
I was one of the people who talked with you, great to hear from you.
I am happy to hear you loved the valley, I donât think I will ever leave.
I cannot believe the great responses! I am going to have to make a trip down.
I will take a look at your links, please keep in touch.
Cheers,
Nick
I think you could be making a mistake focusing on equipment and should focus on the âOwnersâ
Owners are the people that will train people, keep it operational, and give the machine love.
They are the ones that can tell you what there willing to support if you buy a piece of equipment; with no owner it is likely the equipment will never be used to itâs potential.
That being said we have a Shapeoko and I have only seen it used once. (Likely cause there is no owner for it)
I have seen it running at least 3 times. But to expand on the point, it has a label that training is required, but I have never seen a class listed. Nor have I seen who to reach out to for individual training. In contrast, the HAAS and Multicam both have regularly scheduled classes on their CAM tool chain and safe operation. It isnât coincidental that those tools have obvious owners who volunteer the time to be sure they are usable by the members. The outages I have seen on the HAAS have been very short. Meanwhile, the shapeoko has a very obvious wobble in the Z axis that I doubt would have been allowed to become so visible if there was an owner with the same buy into supporting the tool.
Again, not saying anything about the relative merit of the tools, but rather the necessity of someone, or a collective someone, accepting ownership of training and maintenance.
Our machine shop CNC equipment, particularly the HAAS generate the most interest (and revenue from the HAAS classes); however, the manual mill and lathe get far more actual use by members.
CNC is an extremely attractive tool to most makers; however, it has a pretty steep learning curve in at least three areas; 3D design (CAD), tool path generation (CAM), and finally machine operation. The latter is the easiest of the three to learn.
I strongly second @Kentamanos recommendation for VCarve if you go with a shapeoko. That software has an incredibly shallow learning curve.
But I would encourage looking at manual machines such as a 7x14 or 9x16 chinese lathe and a table top drill/mill prior to the CNC machines. I suspect youâll would discover the same thing we have, they may not be sexy, but they will probably get more actual use.
BTW, Good used older (and larger machines) can be had for comparable prices to the new Chinese tools mentioned above. Perhaps @bgangwere can provide some insight into the places he finds the goodies he acquires.
I was wondering if you were⌠Iâm horrible with names! eek
I had a really great time visiting yâall! âOne of these daysâŚâ, I hope to make the Western Slope âhomeâ again for realâŚ
You should totally come down⌠a âbusiness tripâ to check out the 'Space and get a feel for how we have our stuff set up.
Iâll be sure to stop by the next time Iâm in town⌠Hopefully within the next few months⌠if not, then next summer.
It seems I read an article a couple months ago about yâall (planning or already) having a satellite space in Palisade (or somewhere nearâŚ???). Howâs that coming along? Itâs pretty neat to hear about yâall growing 'n expanding 'n all!
Hi Lisa,
I am bad at names too. Thankfully I have a photographic memory, I canât forget a face!
I am working on the business trip side. I go down to McAllen/Reynosa for my normal day job to setup the equipment I design in our manufacturing plant in Mexico. I fly through DFW a lot at times. I want to setup my flight so I can come visit!!!
There are a few places in town and the valley that different groups are trying to start. We are trying to work with them to not have competing resources. All in all, there is a great deal of people that want this to happen, just in disarray with all the different groups. Lots of politics, with the warm Maker ideals, it should smooth out and be great!
Cheers,
Nick
Frank,
Thank you for your 2¢. Greatly appreciated. I am a machinist by heart and I agree that a real cast iron machine is not a good starting point. I canât count on both hands, how many times I have seen a mill bit or worse collide with the spindle on a Haas VF-3, At my old work.
I was looking at the Shapeoko and then found the X-Carve. Pretty nice setup and easily upgraded. I could even change the over current on the circuity with little modification to the circuitry. Teaching machine tool safety and operation is tough from a not technical standpoint, but I enjoy teaching others the right way. Must be the engineer in me with a touch of OCD.
Thank you for your input,
A wood shop would be great! I am a long time woodturner and do a lot of woodworking. We are tied to our local business incubator (they got us a nice nugget of money with their mojo) and see the value in a Makerspace. The one direction they want to go is nurturing startups and people that donât have the skills or tools to turn their idea (product or process) into a business. At the same time they are very receptive to the open source side. This is driving us down the road of getting machine tools to have a wide target audience.
I also have a great deal of machining experience and have taught beginners on machining. The CNC (tiny one for what I have used) that I am looking at is the X-Carve. You can use a web application to get a part cut quick or add a CNC software to run G-Code. Pretty slick.
The other side is I am a manufacturing engineer and deal with people off the street and create procedures for the to operate complex machines. No sweat. I definitely see the hurtles and canât wait to take them on.
Robert,
The advices is well received. We are very small right now <20. I am the only one who has machining experience. I like your structure and going to post in the Machine Shop forum to get some ideas on how to structure things.
I am starting our process, competency levels, teaching, and procedures this weekend. First for the laser cutters, we now have! Epilog Fusion 40 (60W), purchased and just came in a week ago and a spectrum that was donated a few weeks ago. Things are starting to ramp up quickly.
Once again, thank you for your input,
Cheers,
Nick
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