Machining Materials Other than Wood Or Steel

DMS General
#1

Not sure which category other than General to put this in.

Question #1: Is there a list of banned materials from Maker Space?

Questions #2: If we want to machine, mill, sand, CNC, laser, turn/lathe, and/or work with materials like G10, carbon fiber, cured resin, mammoth ivory or molars, walrus ivory, antler, etc… for making knife handle scales, where can this be done? Machine shop? wood shop? elsewhere? I use these materials to make knife scales at home, but there only so much I can do with my 2x72 belt grinder, and some other tools I have and use. Would really like to be able to mill, CNC, laser, etc… some knife scales and other curiosities of this type in the space, not just wood. Thank you in advance for your time to answer.

Question #3: Can brass, copper, titanium, or even other metals be worked in the machine shop on the tools there? or just steel?

Thank you.
Jeff C.

G10 knife scales
#2

Banned materials are by commitee area and machine.

Looks like you are in the machine and blacksmith/knife shops.

@Team_Machine_Shop
@Team_Blacksmithing

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#3

He’s asking about some organic materials like mammoth molars, antler, etc. Those are really not appropriate in Machine Shop. How about in Wood Shop?

EDIT:

@team_laser … Could these specific things be lasered? They don’t emit toxic fumes.

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#4

@dwolf
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#5

G10

  • plastics area can do all of the ops requested

Carbon fiber / cured resin

  • plastics area, certain woodshop machines with chair permission and thorough cleanup.
  • if you want to mill, could probably have a discussion with machine shop chair as long as you really thoroughly clean up afterwards

Ivory, antler, fingernails, hair

  • woodshop but it stinks so bring donuts for everyone to apologize. Also go slow on sanding as they burn really easily.

That’s my guess anyway.

Generally our biggest issue is people not cleaning up after themselves. if you’re using exotic materials have a conversation with the chair before hand and promise/ execute a really thorough job of cleaning it’s likely to be ok. Food bribes always help.

Laser: check the banned materials list, check online for fire/ damage hazards, go slow and test. Cures carbon/Resin is banned. The organics are probably ok but smell bad and have medium fire danger so be alert.

Other metals: yes you can work those, bring your own cutters and do a lot of reading before hand. Machining copper is gummy and difficult. Titanium I believe is banned. You need anoxic environments to effectively machine titanium.

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#6

Good info around thanks. As for cleaning up, I will always do that. I won’t say out loud here what area, as perhaps the person was away for a bit and coming back, but recently I was in an area where several huge messes were left. Kinda shocking, but I suppose it does happen. First thing I did when I finished was clean up my mess. Just seems like the polite/responsible thing to do!

#7

@Anachronite, not sure if you’ve used it before, but if you’re going to do anything with mammoth ivory, dry it out as much as possible beforehand because it has to potential to smell absolutely terrible.

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#8

yes, I have done several things with mammoth ivory. working it on my 2x72 belt grinder/sander, an oscillating sander, bandsaw, and hand sanding. So far no troubles, no smells. I’ve done both stabilized and unstabilized. Just don’t let it get too hot, it can crack. No smell though from what I worked. Guess I have been lucky? LOL

#9

I’ve searched and asked about this a few weeks ago. What I found: Theoretically the list of banned materials space wide should be in here:
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Rules_and_Policies

However, there are cases where the board banned something and the above was not updated. So to answer your question about space wide bans, see the rules above and review all board of directors minute for the last 10 years. Good luck!

As for the Woodshop, there are many banned materials for the woodshop and there are machine specific bans. See File:Woodshop Rules 03 02 2022.pdf - Dallas Makerspace

Don’t know where or if metal and machine shops have rules posted. Nothing against metal, but I’m definitely a wood guy.

I’ve heard people state some rules that I can’t find. People have told me that pressure treated wood and carbon fiber is banned space wide, but I can’t find it written down (I have not gone through 10 years of BOD minutes).

Let me know if you find anything that helps more than the above,

Thanks for asking!!!

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#10

In the beginning there was only metal shop, and respiratory hazards were limited to atomized coolant.* Then came plastics, but that’s okay: HDPE still makes chips, and so does ABS.
Then they came out with fiberglass, a plastic, which scientists figured out gives you cancer, and some old houses have it in the walls. Carbon fiber is like fiberglass but strong, therefore the dust causes strong cancer.
Green PCB material is fiberglass, ergo, cancer. However, they sell cotton phenolic, which is made out of materials like cotton or polyester. So is it safe to mill cotton Garolite but not the regular? Nope. Cancer.(2)

Milling ops generate a range of dust particles. If the dust is big enough to see, it’s too big to absorb.
We have the downdraft plasma and the Felder system. Both of these will minimize absorbable dust recirculation. This area has already the substantial risk sources including welding and lasers. However, machine shop is on the other side of the building. There is nothing on the other side of the building to address absorbable dust recirculation.

My CNC machine lives in a composites workshop. I wear a 3M full face mask. I don’t eat or drink while working. The most important thing is the change of clothing. You can’t bring the dust back to your living space where you sleep.
Composites is relatively new and does not have the wealth of knowledge that we have from career welders and woodworkers. The guidance is contradictory or doesn’t make sense. Blanket bans may fulfill a purpose, if it reduces the risks.

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*Assuming nothing catches fire etc.

(2) The exposure laws for cotton phenolic are categorized under respirable organic particles, not respirable fiberglass particles. idk what this means yet.

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#11

So we were discussing Silicosis, and the related “respirable … particle” diseases the other day in Glass Working. The related disease for certain types of cotton working were called “Brown Lung”. So, basically, regardless of the potential for cancer-causing, respirable particles fill up your lungs, as there is no way for your lungs to remove that material. That said, when I looked up Silicosis, it takes 10-30 years of industrial exposure to develop an issue.

When I’m doing the silicosis speech during a class, I also point out that one needs to be aware of the current state of one’s lungs. So, if you’re already having some sort of breathing/lung difficulty, try not to breathe any of the dust.

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#12

I am the plastics SIG leader, so I think I have some say on this. Most materials like G10, cotton/linen micarta, and cured organic reinforced resins can be worked in the plastics shop .with proper PPE and precautions. I know G10 has glass fiber in it, but I understand the high pressure lamination process isolates the fibers in the matrix. This includes the saws, the cnc router, drill press and the sherline machines. it depends on the nature of the reinforcement material in teh matrix, as some reinforcement materials are very abrasive and dangerous. Metallic and Ceramic reinforcements come to mind. IN light of this, composites should not be sanded due to the smaller particle size generated and the risk of airborne dust to people and machines. Any sanding in the plastics shop should be donewith respiratory PPE. Machining or sawing these materials leads to chips and not dust. We just don’t have the safe infrastructure to sand these composite materials. Use personal respiratory protection and clean up after yourself. Our rule in the plastics shop is that carbon fiber may not be machined or sanded due to the health risks. I understand that the carbon fibers fracture to a respirable size even when machined. The dust and chips are also electrically conductive and can damage the computers and controller boards, as our cnc mahine is not enclosed and our computers and controllers are not isolated or sealed. We also cannot work materials “wet “ on the shapeoko because the base board is MDF, a materials very vulnerable to moisture. I agree that these rules should be in writing. I will propose this at the next machine shop meeting so that this can be disseminated and posted.

If you want input on these rules, come to the meeting and bring MSDS or other data.
I would be OK with biological handle materials being worked in the plastics shop as long as proper cleanup and PPE practices are followed.
We do not have belt sander/grinder that would be good for knife handle work. The belt grinders in blacksmithing and metal shop are generally ferrous metal only, and the woodshop is a woodshop…

Kevin

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#13

Depending on what you want to do with copper, we have some tools in jewelry that work well on copper. Brass can be cold worked, but not hot worked in jewelry. No steel in our area! But copper is fine.

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