Lift Install Updates

Automotive
#1

Thanks to @tom 's donation we will soon have a 2 post lift in the auto area!

Electrical will probably be the largest wait right now, you should expect a couple week delay before anyone can begin using it. My current plan on how it will be used is that the lift will be left locked at all times, mandatory training (regardless of past experience!) and a one time training fee of $100 will be required before a member will be allowed to operate the lift. The high training fee is intended to discourage use by temporary members(who would potentially join for a week just to use lift, and then cancel membership) and to limit the number of people who have access so that those who need it will be able to use it (we have no reservation system, so it will start out as first come first serve). You will only be allowed to put your own privately owned vehicle on the lift, and as always you work on things at your own risk.

5 Likes
#2

$100 training fee is ridiculous.

Why tout during the open house that someone can join for a month to do their project and cancel if you are going to “rig” that system by charging crazy high “training” fees?

Why not charge crazy high LASER training fees so that those who need to use it will be able to use it?

Put me down as strongly opposing this fee. The table saws and other tools at DMS are as dangerous if not more so than this lift.

2 Likes
#3

The $75 ( edited - thanks ) fee for the HAAS training makes sense - it’s an expensive machine to operate. I can’t imaging the lift falling into the same category.

Bad plan.

#4

If anyone is telling people that they can join for a month and quit, they need to stop. We don’t need people abusing DMS that way. In fact, I’d like to see a 3 month minimum commitment.

3 Likes
#5

That’s a separate issue.

Punitive training fees for equipment installed at the space is bad policy. If someone has joined, and has had the training, that should be that.

#6

A one time fee is much easier to administer vs trying to handle a fee based on usage time like with the laser. Getting unlimited lift usage for $50 / month is an insanely low price, which is why I think an additional fee is appropriate for what will be a scarce resource.

2 Likes
#9

Yeah, I can’t support a $100 dollar training fee either for lift access. I understand what you are trying to do via the high fee, but something around $50 would be much more applicable and accessible in my mind. I can’t justify paying $100 for using it for the occasional oil change, or transmission filter change, which I need to do on my suv and was hoping to use the lift for, but will stick with using jack stands at that kind of cost.

1 Like
#10

The LASER cutter, or 3D printers are SCARCE resources…Rarely are the 3d printers available, and I have to be nimble to catch the laser cutter open.

Maybe we should set the “training” fee on them to $200.

#11

Folks,

Lets try to curtail sarcasm. One it doesn’t translate well in written communication and Two, lets remember that your talking to someone @Brandon_Green who volunteers a lot of his time and energy to the space and its members. Given him the benefit of the doubt. He has certainly earned it.

You don’t have to agree, and you can certainly discuss the issue, but do try to actually discuss instead of snipe about it.

2 Likes
#12

It isn’t abusing DMS…some people join only to find out it doesn’t suit them and so they quit. Forcing someone to have to sign up for 3 months would inhibit many people from joining.

The fees for the CNC equipment are designed to help pay for tooling and maintenance and not as a way of keeping them available for members.

This was a donated item that has no maintenance costs besides electricity.

1 Like
#13

We are trying to build a community not a service shop for people to come in and use a tool and leave. We want to encourage collaboration and education.

Paul for those people that you describe please send them to somewhere like http://www.mybayauto.com/

It is not the members we are trying to attract.

4 Likes
#14

Alternative proposal: One must be a full voting-rights member before using the lift, and have completed the (free or small nominal cost) training class before using. Seems like that would weed out the transients very well. [edit: and by that, I mean that someone really wants to be part of DMS at that point]

Full disclosure notice: I am a voting-rights member. I have no positions on DMS or any other stock mentioned in this post. :slight_smile:

3 Likes
#15

I am not telling people to join for a month to fix their car and quit, I have heard it advertised several Thursdays while I am working in the main room…I don’t advocate it, but it is being advertised as an option.

#16

If you could please let me know who those people are and I will talk with them. We really must watch the message that is conveyed to guests

#17

Why no do something similar to the cnc wood router - require a training class and a one-on-one test before using. That would discourage people from joining just to use it once, due to the additional scheduling needed.

1 Like
#18

There are numerous examples of people who have signed up, worked on a project (or just stored one), usually taking up a disproportionate amount of DMS resources, and then quit. This is definitely abuse. We don’t need to grow for growth’s sake; if somebody doesn’t immediately see the value of DMS we don’t need to be enticing them to join.

Having a lift will definitely invite people to pay $50 and take 2 weeks to swap a transmission and then quit.

I’m with you, Brandon.

3 Likes
#19

Why does there need to be special costs and procedures for this tool at DMS?

Just because someone thinks it will be monopolized by non-clique members?

So, I join DMS, but can’t use the Laser cutter for 2 months, then the table saws for 3 months, then the lift whenever I get to the point of being able to vote?

This lift is pretty idiot proof, a basic training class is all that should be required.

1 Like
#20

As one of the people doing that training, I completely underestimated the time it takes. The class is 4 hours and right now we average about 1 to 2 hours per person to test out. Some have gone longer and so far no one has passed first try. I am sure that @Kentamanos can attest to this but it is more of a serious time commitment than being a board member or anything else I do at the space. If I could think of a better way to do it, I would be all about it. If people don’t step up to do those tests, or offer better solutions, its not worth it and the lift should go.

5 Likes
#21

I oppose the fee as well. Training is what DMS is all about and the norm on most machines. That should be the only requirement. There are no consumables other than electric. (The HAAS has mills that can get broken or consumed so a fee is justified in my eyes)

The liability is the same as any other machine. If liability is the concern, than that should be addressed during training with a contract or waiver.

1 Like
#22

DMS policy would prohibit someone from leaving their car lying around for 2 weeks, so that scenario wouldn’t occur.

The committees are supposed to be monitoring project storage, so those scenarios also shouldn’t be occurring.

If you start putting a bunch of stipulations as to minimum length of membership, length of membership before you are allowed to use tools, or excessive “training” costs to uses tools, you are going to have to start writing contracts and start dealing with small claims suits should people not abide by all these stipulations.

Abuse occurs, hopefully not a lot, but it is something you just have to deal with.

1 Like