Please include a link to the board agenda item where we voted on anything to do with the installation. Thanks.
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No Freddy, it was discussed in Committee and agreed to proceed. The timing was worked out with the Woodshop Chair after confirming that the Felder would operate acceptably with the smaller duct given the constraints at the time. When it became obvious that the expansion related move would be delayed even more than first expected, serious discussion including cost estimates were obtained to install the new duct in the most move friendly way we could. That number was around $3000 IIRC. The decision was to not spend those funds.
Much has been confused about the Felder for a long time. Many forgot is was designed and purchased before Mark even became Wood Shop Chair. Many forgot it was designed for the existing space because the expansion was not a thing at the time of the design & order. And there is even an estimate somewhere around there for redesigning the ductwork for the post-move configuration.
I didn’t blame leadership for anything. I simply said they opted to not spend the money to install the ductwork that was designed for the existing shop space at the time the question was posed. I also acknowledged that there are pros and cons. Yes, I was in favor of proceeding, but accepted that leadership had to make the money call. Nothing more, nothing less.
As for shop cleanliness, it was cleaner as of September 2018. I cannot speak to what has happened since that time.
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Wrong, it was purchased while Mark was woodshop chair.
Perhaps the middle ground we need is to have both options. Cheaper tools for general use, and the Festools with logged key fob access.
I have lesser tools at home. If the good tools are going away, then the motive for driving all the way across town will certainly decrease.
I would think we should be able to both provide a way to get beginners up to speed, and maintain the more professional tools for those that wish to learn to use them to their greater potential.
Unfortunately, I think this is going to take singling out some individuals, at least privately. The sanders and the miter saw breaking with alarming regularity are things that have to be stopped.
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Hello Julie. It was a BoD decision to buy the Felder in maybe early 2017? Not exactly sure about that timing. Once it was delivered, it was a Committee decision to install or wait for the move. Teeth were nashed about the issue. Folks worried that we were burning the warranty period by having it onsite and not used among other things. As the probable expansion dates began to move further and further into the future, the committee opted to make the best of what we had and try to address the dust & noise issues that existed. Talk has comments by others on how much cleaner the air became, so it’s not just my opinion.
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I have $100 that says you are wrong. Mark even looked at options to cancel the Felder order and look at other routes.
It was delivered during Mark’s term. The final payment was made during Mark’s term. It was ordered by the previous Chair.
The deal was dead Bert, Kris resurrected it with Mark. We paid extra in order to revive it. Call it what you want…While it might have been originally created previous to mark, it was most definitely Mark and Kris’s doing to purchase…
The $100 offer remains. You have the details wrong. What Kris and Mark scrambled to do was address the move by Felder to cancel the $5000 deposit because we were making them hold it in their warehouse instead of taking delivery. Kris and Mark simply avoided DMS losing a $5000 deposit on a BoD approved purchase because Felder wasn’t interested in continuing to hold the completed unit once DMS approved the expansion and decided to relocate woodshop.
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Of course it sucks, that’s the point.
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If only it sucked well enough to surpass its predecessors
Can we try to get along better? I’m not sure why we have to be so antagonist to each other. We don’t act like this at my job and there is definitely that one team in a particular country that no one likes… But we certainly are much nicer to them, even though we don’t like them. Why can’t we be nicer here? I find it rather discouraging as a volunteer and I’m sure the leadership also finds it discouraging too.
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If my point was lost. With more classes, we had more members committed above, the next person will do it volunteer mentality.
More teachers meant more people invested in the committee and it’s working tools.
We didn’t have double the volunteer run space 4/5 years ago…
My anecdotal recollection is the Felder is actually much better than the other two - in dust collection and noise. I may be all wet, but I wouldn’t say Felder is worse.
I do wish it was easier to know when to empty it - the old ones were much easier, it was always time to empty them.
I think the Felder was a good buy, I just wish there was an option to self empty - but if people would clean up and maintain the shop like it was theirs we wouldn’t have any of these problems.
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It does not matter who when or how it was purchased. We have it. All of the above gibberish is focussed on the wrong issue. The Felder was specked and approved for an expansion, by the committee, Zoning and Planning, and the fire marshall.
When it was ordered the intent was to have it purchased and delivered as Woodshop moved into it’s new location.
Once delivered and since the new Woodshop space was not available, the Felder was installed in a temporary configuration. Everyone involved agreed the temporary configuration was suboptimal, it was temporary and an improvement over the dust collection system
The Felder did not solve the same problem we had in the other collectors, we still need people to empty it when it is full.
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Something that also isn’t mentioned but was a driver in getting a new system is the Fire Marshal had issued a violation originally with a 30 day to fix notice.
He was told we would upgrade our system. It was over a year before the Felder was delivered. Probably more like 18 months. He was very patient and understanding.
We had a professional engineer evaluate and submit a report. @dallasmagna had this done. This showed we were making progress. Then we asked for an extension based on the original build out plan, again he agreed with extending it.
- Note: IMO the FM gets an excoriated unnecessarily. Not saying he is perfect. But considering how many times he has cited us for extension cord chaining, dust on sprinkler heads, excessive dust in wood shop - especially around outlets (after one such visit, about a week later a wall plug caught on fire, pretty much validating his complaints) plus he was very tolerant in how long the he allowed an open violation to continue.
No, I don’t agree with everything he has cited us on, like the hanging framed anti-echo panels in lecture hall, but his complaint was we couldn’t prove they were fire retardant. Same for the sound proofing in DM. But if he were out-to-get-us we are easy prey and my experience was he really doesn’t want to shut us down - but if we ever have a fire/incident, he’ll be the one answering: Hey, why didn’t you catch this?
Yes, DMS could probably litigate some items, at great cost. But I believe courts will give a Fire Marshal’s opinion great deference is enforcing public safety.
When that build-out plan dissolved the plan to install the Felder was implemented - the details discussed above. I can’t attest to what the specifics of those were.
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After stepping away for a bit and reflecting on this, I have to wonder if the recent complaints about Felder performance is a reflection of excess accumulation within the filter media and that it simply could not push the air volume through the system like it is supposed to do. Just as Tom recollects improved performance initially, others expressed the same thing at the time. Mike’s picture way back up in post #6 shows filter media so plugged that performance had to be taking a hit.
This is not unlike all the bickering and hard feelings that sprouted when the shop AC was not doing it’s job. Only when @TBJK went on the roof and visually inspected the horribly fouled cooling cools did good things happen and cooling returned.
The Felder picture is like Tim’s picture of the AC coils … oops, we cannot operate that way and expect a good outcome. Woodshop will need to be just as proactive in keeping that filter media clean as Infrastucture became at keeping the AC coils clean. Taking the time to identify the root causes of the issues is the most practical and least stressful way of making the most of the facilities. It’s also how you play nice.
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Just going to nitpick this point one last time … the ductwork you have in the warehouse is designed for the existing shop, not the expansion shop. It was ordered to be delivered to and used in the existing shop. DMS decided after the fact to delay delivery because it was originally planned to arrive too close to the time the early 2018 move was to happen. Then the move became mid 2018, then even later, etc. Felder played their trump card (cancelling and keeping the deposit) to get it out of their warehouse.
Whenever it gets moved to the new space, you will need to modify the duct design. It was not designed for and will not fit the new layout.
@dallasmagna was neck deep in this at the time of the original order at the request of the BoD. He is a valid source for confirmation.
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The Felder did not solve the same problem we had in the other collectors, we still need people to empty it when it is full.
Is there anyway to fix this? Like run a duct outside and into a dumpster when we’re in the new spot for woodshop? I wouldn’t know the first part of the logistics of that but doesn’t the metal shop do something similar with the exhaust fumes from the welder?
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I think Felder calls that the rotary feeder option and I’ve heard Mike/Mark mention that they’re planning on doing this after the move.