It is perfectly possible to argue about what constitutes a fact. Earlier this month there was an argument in the logistics committee meeting over the meaning of clear, written English. Recordings can also be manipulated to show the exact opposite of what actually happened, and they are all the time.
From my viewpoint, this is annoyingly often an oxymoron. Iāve seen too many cases where there are two or more ways to parse a sentence, or the context it resides in such that several possibilities exist for the intended meaning.
A corporation is not a business, any more than a car is a Chevrolet. The IRS does not consider DMS to engage in business activities. (http://www.irs.gov/uac/Business-or-Hobby%3F-Answer-Has-Implications-for-Deductions). And the IRS definition of anything does not dictate the legal definition of it. I was, in any case, referring to the common definition of a business as an entity engaged in activities for the purpose of making a profit, which is also the legal definition of a business, as far as I can tell. A group of people paying rent together is actually a more accurate description of us, though I would go with non-profit organization.
As I was one of the persons raising that argument, I object to calling that particular text clear. I even believe Allens confidence in the meaning was when he raised the issue with other attorneyāsā¦
A group of folks that are hardly known for producing clear language.
Youāre right: everything is certainly subject to interpretation and presentation.
I cannot think of a way, better than recording, to reduce discrepancies to a minimum.
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Sorry, been busy as hell at work (after being on vacation for over a week).
IANAL, and I will mostly avoid playing one. I am avoiding legal requirements for permissions now (I would guess a notice on the door would cover most of it but no actual confidence).
This thread started out as Hangouts. Personally, I donāt like that idea. I have seen remote people take over a meeting with no feel for interest level of people in the room. Maybe some controls could be put around that and maybe I might change my mind.
As far as recording, I am fine with audio or video recording for myself. I think audio only is more realistic. I think audio levels might be an issue and require some post processing or possibly a micād podium (which might lower chaos levels of meetings as an added bonus).
Any recordings would require an owner to actually do it consistently (EVERY month). I would be fine and willing to handle simple audio, but I donāt want to be distracted too much (video or worrying about levels etc.).
All that said, the BoD hasnāt discussed this too much yet, so these are just my thoughts.
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[quote=ābgangwere, post:43, topic:4833, full:trueā]
A corporation is not a business, any more than a car is a Chevrolet. [/quote]
Your analogy is backwards. A corporation is a business, just as a Chevrolet is a car.
[quote=ābgangwere, post:43, topic:4833, full:trueā]
The IRS does not consider DMS to engage in business activities. (http://www.irs.gov/uac/Business-or-Hobby%3F-Answer-Has-Implications-for-Deductions).[/quote]
Nothing in that link shows that DMS is not engaged in business activities. In fact, not-for-profits fall under business activities, as stated,
āIf an activity is not for profit, losses from that activity may not be used to offset other income. An activity produces a loss when related expenses exceed income. The limit on not-for-profit losses applies to individuals, partnerships, estates, trusts, and S corporations. It does not apply to corporations other than S corporations.ā
[quote=ābgangwere, post:43, topic:4833, full:trueā]
And the IRS definition of anything does not dictate the legal definition of it.[/quote]
Rules made by federal bureaurcratic agencies have the force of law. That includes the IRS, DHS, FDA, FAA, FCC, OSHA and a host of other agencies.
Not-for-profits must follow the law regarding businesses. This is important here because it means that the Board is not free to do just anything it wishes; it must answer to the voting membership (among other rules created by the government).
OK, Iāll make this explanation really short. If you have an Employer Identification Number (EIN), you are a business. DMS has an EIN. Therefore, DMS is a business.
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Wow. Ok
- There are 4 Chevrolets in my family. Only one of those is a car.
- We arenāt a not-for-profit. Weāre a non-profit.
- I said the IRS does not define legal terms. Show me any statute definitions theyāve penned.
- What statute states that non-profits must follow āthe law regarding businessesā? The IRS defines a 501(c)(3)s here. The main rules we have to follow are not to benefit a private individual and not to lobby politically (with some exceptions). We also have to be organized as one of 3 types of entities, of which we are (according to the link you sent earlier) a corporation. The suggested language for our corporation charter says nothing about the board having to answer to the membership. The IRS also requires that organizing documents be submitted, yet their suggestions for those documents say nothing about board oversight. Iāll admit I didnāt read through the instructions for filling out all the forms, but Iāll bet I didnāt miss a sneaky clause about restrictions on the board.
- EIN stands for Employer Identificaion Number, and is also known as a Federal Tax Identification Number. According to the IRS you need one if you fall in to one of 6 categories, one of which is being a non-profit. Itās how they track us for taxation purposes. It does not make us a business.
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This has become fully off topic now. If you would like to flame war, please do via PM.
Hopefully we can get to a solution allowing access / better recording of the dms board meetings.
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We have no rules against filming the meetings, but I usually ask that anyone filming do their best to not record members (as quiet a few dislike being recorded).
Personally, Iām against recording board meetings, mainly because I donāt want to get into an argument 6 months later about the specific wording I used in an off-hand remark (or similar). We also have quiet a few members who are not comfortable speaking in public, which makes speaking at the meetings stressful for them; they have said that recordings amplify that stress.
That said, Iām not about to pass any rules and Iām not against streaming the meetings.
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