Green New Deal + Vox article = hhmmm


Continuing the discussion from Lets build up some cars and have a class - Drift Cars:

Didn’t know anything about this so looked it up and found:

Which made me remember this:

Excerpts being:

From first article:

“The resolution largely sticks to a blueprint Ocasio-Cortez laid out when she proposed creating a House select committee to establish a Green New Deal.”
" paves the way for legislation that would lay out explicit projects and policies.
Ocasio-Cortez plans to begin crafting that legislation immediately.
The resolution is co-sponsored by 60 members of Congress and nine senators, including 2020 Democratic presidential contenders Cory Booker, Kirsten Gillibrand, Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren."
“Ocasio-Cortez has previously floated ideas for how to pay for the plan — including imposing a charge on greenhouse gas emissions, tapping the Federal Reserve for credit and establishing a 70 percent marginal tax rate for wealthy Americans.”

From the second article:

" I’m going to be the bad guy, which, I’m sure, half the room would agree with anyway, and I want to get away with as much bad things as possible, ideally to enrich myself and advance my interests, even if that means putting my interests ahead of the American people,” Ocasio-Cortez said during the Wednesday hearing. “I have enlisted all of as my co-conspirators, so you’re going to help me legally get away with all of this.”

She then asked a litany of questions. Can she run a campaign entirely funded by corporate political action committees? Yes. Can she use that money to make hush payments and pay people off to get elected? Yes. Once in office, can she influence and write laws that might affect the groups from which she’s taken special interest money? Yes. And can she hold stocks in companies the legislation she’s writing might boost? Yes.

Ocasio-Cortez, in her lightning round of questions, identifies a way to break down campaign finance laws — and all the surprising things they allow — in a way that’s easy to digest. That a politician can legally take money from, for example, the oil and gas industry and then, once elected, write laws that help the industry and invest in oil and gas stocks is pretty wild. As she puts it, it’s easy for her to be a “pretty bad guy.”

Politicians. Same everywhere.


Someone commented that AOC might stand for Abnormal Operating Conditions.
Go figure.

Then there’s this: #You Go First

Politicians -> Hypocrites every one


I’m not following what the point is. Are you saying AOC is corrupt and quoting her for pointing out how messed up campaign finance law is? I’m not trying to argue, just trying to understand what it is you are pointing out.


So by pointing out that the campaign finance system breeds corruption, she’s corrupt? Not sure I follow.


Sorry, I didn’t mean to confuse anyone.
Just thinking of the irony of the second article( encountered yesterday ) when I read the first article ( after looking it up today) when @artg_dms mentioned(in jest, I think) in another unrelated discussion.
Many/all (politicians/anyone in a perceived seat of power) get corrupted sooner or later. Career ones more so.
They may not have started out with that intent but to stay in the game( in the hopes that you can change it for the good,) you have to play the game by the existing rules(written or not).


Green New Deal is … ambitious … based on what I’ve been able to gather. Here’s the resolution itself. It’s a non-binding resolution so it’s not going to raise your taxes or create new agencies. Insofar as cost analysis even Bloomberg think’s it’s unaffordable at a breezy $6.6 trillion per year. A lot of idealism there to the tune of ~⅓ of GDP.


I think the Green New Deal is a discussion starting point. I don’t believe even AOC believes it has any hopes of full implementation, and I think while she has thrown out some funding ideas she knows it can’t actually be funded right now. I think you submit the all in pipe dream and then see how much wheeling and dealing you can do to get even half of your pipe dream done.

I’m still missing how AOC pointing out how easy it is for politicians to be corrupt and her submitting the Green New Deal are connected but I’ll just let that sleeping doe lie.


@indytruks138, I found the I could be a really bad guy SKIT to be a weird one. It ended with a random accusation aimed at Trump, effectively saying, if you could say we are bad you are worse. But, it also outlined how to buy the congress just so everyone knows, wink wink. The whole bit of it was weird and a stunt.

If you wanted to go all conspiracy theory connecting it to the green deal. You could say that AOC released her menu of items she would like to be bribed to enact, so if you are a company that would profit from those kinds of changes, here is your path to bribe me.

But, I’m not a conspiracy theorist, I just found it all weird. The Green Deal seems like it would kill our economy, to win the virtue signalling war. The rehearsed Lightning Round Skit just made me further realize the talent in the SNL cast vs the Dems in congress.


I think you’re misunderstanding the article? She’s saying she can do all that because that’s how the system is set up currently and it’s all technically perfectly legal. It’s a method of pointing out the flaws in the system.

To assume every single politician is going to become corrupt is just being unnecessarily cynical, though I’m sure there are seveRal that are, which was part of her point: at how easy it is to be corrupt in the current system.


How you stated it is how I understood it, if you take the Vox article as a standalone.

P.S. The current system sounds like it has been the status quo for quite some time, except she’s on record(that we know of) for calling it out, while implying the president(whomever he/she may be) can be a bigger crook with no oversight if they wanted to be.

Here’s an interesting mini documentary to take a look at.

P.S. The original series are about or under 10 minutes each, in much better quality than that compilation, and came out some time in 2018 to my recollection. I don’t think you can find it in the platform it originally came out on any more. At least, not from the original publisher. You gotta wonder.


Then I guess I just don’t understand what you mean by ‘politicians, same everywhere’. AOC doesn’t appear to be the new boss, same as the old boss politician as of yet.

P.S. The current system sounds like it has been the status quo for quite some time, except she’s on record(that we know of) for calling it out, while implying the president(whomever he/she may be) can be a bigger crook with no oversight if they wanted to be.

Correct. That was her point.


i feel as though the cost of the green new deal beats the idea of using a sawzall to open the swedish seed vault before the roving scavenger blood armies pick you off.

but maybe my view is too nuanced.


You got it.


Update as of this weekend,
Any concern with the New Green Deal is just Republican Fake News as they are making up fake articles and have hacked both NPR and the House website. Please don’t look into this any further and remember, we are saving the world.


I think you nailed it, its a place to start the discussion. To me it reads like a case of asking for 10 in hopes of getting 2 or 3.


Got a link/reference from an unbiased source? I have yet to hear/see anything like this.

Meh…more like trading one set of problems for another.
Interesting how no one talks about the down side of some of those “renewable energy sources”.
Solar panels currently have a life expectancy of ~20 years.
About the same length of time to break even on purchase/install costs.
So what happens to all those panels at EOL?
They can’t go to a landfill because they contain heavy metals.
Recycle? Have yet to see any efforts or discussion on this.
But hey its 20 years down the road and not my/our problem, right?

Wind turbines - same thing.
And then there’s the “scarring” of Mommy Earth w/ new roads to handle the heavy equipment to install them.
And there’s more “scarring” of Mommy Earth for high tension lines to get connected to the pwr grid.
Take a look at Google Earth satellite maps.
Some 20 yrs down the road the same heavy equipment will have to go in and replace/remove those turbines.

It’s interesting to observe the hypocrisy of the “concerned” including our so called “representatives” - not in my neighborhood, not in my back yard. I’ m not giving up my SUV/PU/sportscar/etc. But hey I’ll vote people into office to force others to do so.

Interesting insight here. Thanks for posting this. Probably goes a long way in explaining some of the behavior when the clowns/politicians get together - regardless of rank, file, affiliation, etc.


That’s the outcome of almost every solution to complex problems with deep roots.

Solar panels of any decent quality have warranty periods of 20-25 years; useful operating lives far far longer than that. From what I’ve gathered, degradation as seen in the field is typically about half what the warranties would suggest. 50 years of useful production is plausible - likely longer than you’ll care for a granite countertop or stained concrete floors.

Inverters used to fail on a ~decade basis but I gather they’re more reliable now. This remains the big operational concern/expense with solar installs since they’re still some ~$0.70 per rated watt.

Depends on the laws and policies in the area. Here in TX without net metering, cheap electricity, and your incentive is retail power purchase avoidance, yeah, decades until payback - retail electric price inflation depending. If you’re in a state with net metering where utilities pay retail for power, higher prices for electricity, and Time-Of-Use billing then the payback can be under a decade.

Silicon is the main material in the cells - Probably far easier to recycle than conventional electronics since it’s concentrated, present in large quantities, and the cells are a lot simpler than ICs. Assuming anyone can be bothered to reprocess them, of course.

The huge carbon fiber bits might not be economically reclaimable. But much of the rest - steel, aluminum, copper - can be recycled.

Those people can go live an 1850s lifestyle if they want. The industrial economy demands energy and raw materials - these can be made sustainable, not unicorn-fart squeaky clean.


Well I vote we give her a chance before jumping to corruption conclusions. So far so good IMO.

What’s interesting to me (and I’m not saying you’re one of these people) are those that believe AOC is laying out a laundry list of bribes (versus just setting up for her example) that would get to her but somehow Trump telling Russia to hack the DNC on national TV is outlandish, because why would anyone ever be that blatant?


All good valid pnts on the solar pnls.
Improvements in the tech has made them much more efficient - both the pnls and the inverters/controllers.
Expect prices to go up due to tariff nonsense and this:

Concerning wind turbine EOL:

I could bring up the issues w/ rare earth materials required by a lot “save mommy earth” efforts.
Remember “blood diamonds”?
Modern version is “blood rare earths”.
An unpleasant topic for another day.


@artg_dms I was just kidding with my comment. I watched the Tucker Carlson interview with high level AOC adviser Robert Hockett. As one of my liberal friends sent me the video with the message “Tucker was just put in his place about the New Green Deal.” The original link no longer works, but here is the interview from another link,

The it doesn’t matter we are saving the world part of my comment was based on the responses I saw when people were trying to explain to this echo chamber of Dems, that Robert Hockett either had no clue what he was talking about or he was just lying in the interview. These kinds of messages were made fun of in the group, until other articles from Dems supported outlets came out questioning Hockett’s statements. The final messages I saw as the threads died was, “It doesn’t matter, we are saving the world.”

I had hoped this was an obvious satirical post for any that knew me, while also just repeating the things I was reading. But, I guess you missed my humor, so there is it explained. I hope it bring a chuckle, but I’ve heard explaining humor tend to end the humor.