Ethanol As a Fuel Additive

Automotive
#1

Continuing the discussion from Why you should buy top-tier gas (and where to get it):

Just wanted to split this off into a different topic from the “Top Tier Fuels” thread.
So…
I was recently chatting with a family member who lives in Alabama and he mentioned buying ethanol free fuel, especially for his small-engine equipment. I honestly didn’t know you COULD.
Turns out, there’s at least 1 web page dedicated to it: pure-gas.org
Here’s a link to their Texas page. You’ll notice, unless I’ve overlooked it, nothing in the metroplex. I’m pretty sure it’s…discouraged to sell non-oxygenated fuels in metropolitan areas, the former additive for such being MTBE and the current being ethanol.
Has anyone else noted a 10% or so improvement in fuel economy when leaving metropolitan areas since the oxygenated bs started?

TruFuel vs Pump Gas
#2

No. I’ve noticed a substantial drop in mileage when I get fuel at a Phillips 66 station anywhere. First noticed it after fueling up in New Boston, TX, and have seen it a few times since so I try not to fill up at those stations or stations with Phillips stickers at the pumps.

My F-150 isn’t so bad about the drop in mileage but my prior Miata and current MX-5 hate it.

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#3

It’s much easier to notice a 10% decrease from 30 than from 17…
:slight_smile:

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#4

Yes, I can tell a difference in gas mileage between E10 and straight gasoline. It started to come into common use in my area less than a year after I got my car, and I noticed the change. I can still get over 36mpg (the EPA highway estimate) in my civic on long trips, but it’s a lot more difficult than it should be.

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#5

If you think it’s bad in lawnmowers, the poor guys who converted their airplanes to auto gas are screwed. It really put a kink in those plans.

#6

19 on the F150, 24 on the Miata, and 26 on the MX-5. Not that large of a spread.

I drive the cars hard. :smiley:

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#7

I’m no expert, but these guys like ethanol fuel.

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#8

Race cars are a different topic.
This guy likes it, too.

But they are operating outside the realm most of us ever see, and I’d be curious about their take on it in terms of using it daily to get to work…

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#9

Mighty Car Mods take a pretty honest run down of it. The last part of the video they explain many of the down falls. I also understand they are talking power rather than MPG. Just wanted to show another side. I’m mixed in opinion when it comes to ethanol.

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#10

We travel yearly from here to western South Dakota. All the gas stations along the way sell only ethanolized fuel.

Things we’ve noticed…

• With the exception of a station in northern Oklahoma there does not seem to be any significant difference in mileage because of the gasoline. My suspicion is that the station in question has a higher concentration of ethanol leading to a few miles-per-gallon loss.

• Starting in central Colorado 87 octane is more expensive; 85 octane is the “standard” fuel. Our mileage is consistently lower with the 87 octane gasoline very likely because the octane is raised by adding ethanol.

• In the winter months, Denton / Dallas / Tarrant seem to have the same mixture as everywhere else on our route including very rural towns. In the Summer months, there is a difference: slightly lower mileage very likely because of additional ethanol.

Huh. If I can remember, this summer when we are in Rapid City I will report back about any mileage difference.

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#11

That’s a refreshing place for you to be. Most folks have lined up on one side or the other and it’s largely become almost a religious experience…
I’m a huge fan of ethanol, but less so the government foisting it upon the populace. My pie-in-the-sky on the ethanol front would be tapping into the waste stream exclusively. There are tons of hurdles for doing that on a mass scale, but I continue to believe it’s doable, and a valid pursuit.

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#12

Their ethanol video was fine.
I mistakenly thought their beetle video would be interesting…

#13

There are lots of places that sell gasoline without ethanol that probably aren’t on that website. People like it for small engines because small engines are typically used during certain seasons but not year round (snow blowers, lawn trimmers, etc.). Gasoline with ethanol goes bad after about three months. Gasoline without ethanol goes bad after about a year. If you have a snow blower chances are the gasoline with ethanol will go bad long before you need it again the next season where the gasoline without ethanol will make it to the next season just fine. If you ever have to clean out a carburetor fouled by bad gas with ethanol in it you’ll get why this is a big deal.

As for cars it makes no difference if you run a tank of gas through it at least once every few months (which most people do). The difference in efficiency is indiscernible to most people. From what I’ve seen any gains in efficiency would be lost in the higher cost of the product. Gasoline without ethanol is usually more than 10% more expensive than gasoline with ethanol. For example paying 20% more money for 10% more mileage doesn’t make sense.

#14

I know “100% Gasoline”* is available in Oklahoma. My sister lives in Durant and there are several stations that sell it. As stated above, the cost difference for driving in terms of mpg gain doesn’t seem to justify the cost. But for small engines it probably is a good idea.

I do remember reading an article about how the EPA tests cars for mileage ratings. They use “100% gasoline” because ethanol levels can vary from brand to brand, batch to batch (although they acknowledge the differences are very minimal) so as to make sure all cars are tested with the same fuel/octane rating.

  • really means ethanol free, commercial gasoline does have additives.
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#15

Know of any in the greater DFW area that aren’t racetracks or airports/hangers?
Obviously that site caters to automobiles, but I don’t even know where to get any for my lawnmower (except to buy the “TrueFuel” from the bigbox hardware stores).

#16

Any Makers out there know how to remove ethanol from gasoline?

#17

Fine for the lawn mower, but it’s not a good idea to use 100LL avgas in a car. LL is ‘low lead’, which is not ‘no lead’.

Besides that it’s illegal because it’s not taxed the same.

I would like ethanol fine if it didn’t seem to be such bad economic and energy policy. The jury is out on whether it is actually energy positive (bad energy policy) and it was a contributing factor in the dramatic increase in the price of corn which caused all kinds of problems a few years ago (bad economic policy).

If we can ever figure out how to make the stuff out of cornstalks instead of corn kernels we’d be set.

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#18

We already know how, but there’s not much sense in it because it requires so much more processing. If we can figure out how to do it for a fraction of what it costs now, we’d be all set. Of course, that’s true for almost any method of acquiring portable energy…

#19

[quote=]“DanielHooper, post:17, topic:8728”]
If we can ever figure out how to make the stuff out of cornstalks instead of corn kernels we’d be set.
[/quote]

There is a procedure for making ethanol out of any plant material but it isn’t as efficient. I’m not sure they have a industrial procedure to use it on large scale.

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#20

“Know how”, no.
But it got me thinking.
And googling.
I wonder if this guy’s method works?


It’s roughly what I was thinking: exploit alcohol’s propensity to mix with water, and water’s abhorrence of gasoline.

Sing along with me:
We all now wash our gasoline
wash our gasoline
Screw ethanol and wash your gasoline
wash your gasoline…
(Sounds like “yellow submarine” by the beatles)

EDIT: Course, ye olde bar tricks says ethanol and water don’t REALLY mix that well…

EDIT: But this guy says it works great…

This guy gets all “science-y” about it…