I used the Embroidery machine for about 20,000 stitches today.
I donated $20 to CA for it, but I don’t know how it should be calculated. I want to be certain I didn’t underpay.
That should be plenty. I need to see if that’s on the wiki. At one point, it was on one of the thread cases. Last I looked, though, that one must have been retired by someone.
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Clearly I need to do some research on thread. What’s on the wiki is pretty vague. The note used to spell it out by stitch count.
Ouch,
That is a lot to pay for machine use and thread. I’m guessing DMS is possibly supplying backing as well.
Here is a quick way to guess cost.
Cost of thread plus backing. you can break this out to the stitch at 4mm per stitch, 2mm top and 2mm bobbin, to be generous, so 20,000 stitches would be 80,000mm or 80 meters. You can buy 120 madeira 500m spools on amazon for $73.99, which works out to 60,000 meters of thread or $0.0013 per meter.
For Backing, lets say we are using 2 10"x12" precut stabilizer at $19.99 for 100, or $0.40 for the pair.
So, to make the equation easy, Lets make backing $1 per embroider (2+X cost) and stitches $0.01 per meter used (10x cost), a donation of $1.80 more than covers the use.
I’m not trying to beat up anyone if the price is higher, I do embroidery for a living and thus I’ve had to work out costs like this. So, please take this with the help I’d want it to be. I’d break this down into a table.
Jobs at 5000 stitches or less - $1.20
between 5,000 and 10,000 - $1.40
between 10,000 and 15,000 - $1.60
between 15,000 and 20,000 - $1.80
Jobs over 20,000 stitches - $2 + $0.20 for every 5000 stitches above 25,000 stitches rounded up.
Most of that price is profit, but machine repair and maintenance could add more cost, I’d suggest maybe add a $1 to each price to cover machine repair/future machine replacement and growth if you feel their isn’t enough in the cost give how labor can be the biggest cost around embroidery.
But, in embroidery, we think of jobs in stitch count and pieces, rather than small, medium, and large. so my suggested structure may be easier to understand and provides supplying the consumables needed for the projects.
My $0.02
Thanks for keeping up with this @dryad2b.
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We are indeed supplying backing. Thank you for the info. I think that the old pricing had it at $1/5000 stitches. Yes, we’d be making some profit there, but I’m not sure we want to break it down into $.10 increments.
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Right, but thread isn’t the only cost.
Embroidery machines are expensive for their annual service ($150+), esp. husqvarna.
And there’s replacement cost.
Embroidery machines are NOT cheap. A decent used one will run us 500-1000, and a new one… well the sky’s the limit there. 2,000-3,000 is reasonable, though.
We were lucky that this one was acquired for cheap, and imho we should use that breathing room to save up for a good embroidery machine. (I lean towards the professional multi-needle machines because they are built better, and are actually cheaper than the super-high-end embroidery/sewing machines).
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I agree I probably over paid, and I really appreciate @Nick 's bringing the facts!
I think the old pricing structure of $1/5,000 is pretty close to Nick’s, and easier to remember.
I certainly don’t think that $4 is unreasonable for 4 hrs of stitching yesterday.
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I agree you want head room on these prices. I worked it all out so it is understandable what the actual costs are and what you could expect to bring back to the committee. At the same time understanding the costs allows member to understand how they are helping and growing the space through using the tools. It also is supporting the access to consumable. Having consumables available is often just as important as having the machine.
We had a ton of success early on estimating costs with the laser cutters and through their increased use and attractive pricing not only funded the repair but also the purchase of more lasers off the usage fees. That said the laser costs were mainly power and that was 100% subsidized by the space. meaning the usage fees were nearly all profit for the committee.
As for repair, these machines even the non-professional sewing/embroidery machines are serious work horses. They are based on drive trains that have centuries of use and problem solving. This has lead to machines often only failing in the first 15 years due to not oiling enough. That said some are now seeing issues do to plastic parts and electronics failure. But, it is less common than many other machines.
As a embroiderer and with a lot of experience at DMS, unfortunately I disagree that DMS needs a large industrial embroidery machine. This isn’t because they are delicate. It is because they are very easy to crash as a new user. Because, they don’t lock the stitching area down to the area of the hoop like the sewing/embroidery machines do. That said, my mother has a 4 needle Janome MB4 Embroidery machine that is like-new and she would be willing to sell at a good price, if DMS would like to dip their toes in the more pro machines. I think she would take $2000 for it and they sell new for $5500 and used for $3900.
I’m a supporter of embroidery at DMS and would be willing to digitize a shirt embroidery for someone to teach a class on using the machine. A machine like this would allow you to do short and long run production at DMS. 95% of embroidery I do is 1 to 3 colors on my Tajima machine even through it has 12 needles. So the Janome would really allow DMS a lot of use and would run circles around the sewing/embroidery machine. Especially if you need a color change. Your 4 hour job of 20,000 stitches if you only used 4 colors in the design would likely have taken closer to a 30 to 45 minutes on the janome.
I agree on the workhorses, I was looking around at the machines available and pretty impressed with the selection of quality machines. That is really a phenomenal offer on the Janome. Both for the machine and for your time. And thank you for sharing the hiccups with a professional multi-needle machine vs a single needle domestic embroidery machine. That is experience I do not have, and the input is really valuable.
This was also my first solo rodeo with the embroidery machine, and I go slow and carefully with new machines so I don’t break them.
I’m learning to make plush toys, and that involved applique with the embroidery machine. It was definitely a bit of a learning curve. I had to remove the hoop from the machine at least twice per panel, plus trimming away the excess minky… the time really added up. A second hoop would have sped things up considerably.
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I’m not familiar with the details of your specific pattern, but you might consider laser cutting your minky and/or other appliqués. Fleece and minky laser cut beautifully. They shrink about 1/32" on the edge where you cut, but it nicely seals (and anneals) the edge, virtually eliminating any fraying. I laser cut just about every fabric that I appliqué and it’s a huge time saver. After the machine stitches the marking layer just carefully position your laser cut appliqué over it and stitch the tacking layer as usual. No further trimming required.
Some fabrics are so difficult to cut by hand that laser cutting the appliqué in advance is (IMO) just about the only way to do it. The stupid metallic fabric on the frog was so slippery and unstable I couldn’t cut it by hand.
If you’re appliquíng flat fabric (cotton or whatever) using something like SoftFuse, iron the SoftFuse onto the fabric before laser cutting the outline. And, of course, for small pieces, leave small tabs where the pieces don’t completely separate so they don’t blow away in the laser.
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And bobbin thread … and needles …
EDIT: First of all, let me acknowledge that @AmeliaG was more than generous with her contribution. My points are about the general cost, not about what she paid. Like I said - she was more than generous.
DMS doesn’t buy embroidery thread at wholesale prices. We typically pay retail at Joann or
Amazon. Those prices are higher.
Also, each project requires a piece of stabilizer, so five 1000 stitch projects have more embedded cost than a single 5000 stitch project. It’s just another consideration in why there needs to be a little head room in the pricing.
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You’re so right, I hooped about 6 4x4 pieces of fabric. I did go buy my own 60wt embroidery bobbin thread and use that in the machine. I was going to go hit up Joann’s for some embroidery needles (we don’t have any) and leave them w/ the space.
I learned like 5 things there… and around hour 3 I was wondering if Minky was laser safe…
The pattern had you put your applique fabric on uncut, the machine would stitch the edge, and then you carefully cut the fabric on the outside of the lockstitch, then you put it back on the machine to satin stitch the edges down.
Wonder Under is also laser safe.
You might look into micro-serrated scissors. They are for slippery and sheer fabrics. I use Kai, which is the parent company of Shun Knives. (link for reference)
https://www.amazon.com/3210-Serrated-Blade-Patchwork-Scissor/dp/B0094461LK
Thanks for the pointer on the scissors.
That’s the typical process, but it works just fine laser cutting first. Most appliqué embroidery has three layers:
- Marking layer. This shows where to put your fabric. They tell you place the fabric uncut because they don’t realize you have a way to precisely cut it but in reality the fabric can be cut or uncut.
- Tacking layer. This does a running or bean stitch around the edge of your fabric (cut or uncut) to keep it in place. Again, if you’ve placed your laser-cut fabric carefully, you can just as easily use pre-cut fabric here.
- Now they have you cut the excess fabric but if you’ve laser cut your appliqué you can eliminate the tedious and risky layer of cutting off the excess fabric.
- Border layer (usually satin stitch). This is the decorative embroidery stitching that covers the raw edges. At this point your fabric is already cut; whether hand cut or laser cut, so that doesn’t matter.
Try it. You’ll love it. You’ll never hand cut an appliqué again.
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I do a fair amount of laser work, I’m already sold!
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