Create A Reloading and Gunsmithing Committee

First there is a significant difference between the law and a regulation. Beuracrats, of which the ATF and all other federal agencies are, can create and change regulations, they do not have the authority to change law. Further, if the law and regulation isn’t written down they don’t have any existence. In short, the opinions and interpretations of one or more of these beuracrats have no meaning until they are formalized and in writing. Further, it is standard policy to warn someone who is in good faith attempting to obey the law and regulations as written. This is precisely what happended with the 80% issue. Some of these beureucrats got a bee in their bonnet that some machine shops were essentially doing all of the work for some of their clients; however, proving that in court (and potentially risking their ability to regulate it at all) was something they weren’t going to pursue. So they have made this new ‘inpretation’ that you must own the equipment yourself in order to do such work. The reason they have not attempted to simply say individuals can’t do this work at all is because Congress has passed a law saying we do have that right. As I said, despite their claims that regulations have the same weight as law, beuracrats do not have the authority to pass laws. A regulatory violation is rarely a felony, and even then there is the issue of INTENT, which is required for a crime to be in place. This is why regulatory violations are usually handled with written warnings on the initial offense. It is only in the extreme cases, particularly those with actual violations of the law where charges or even fines are levied.

Of course all of the above is based upon an intent to actually follow both the law and the regulation AS WRITTEN. As long as our interpretation is reasonable, which I think is a given, considering that any application. at the space is going to be subject to review by multiple members we are safe. Frankly, I think this thread is wasting time until the committee is formed and its first meeting where we can begin to hammer out the scope of the committee and any rules it needs to establish. There are some reasonably clear cut things we can agree on.

  1. You can’t perform any manufacturing operations. So if the item isn’t current a functioning gun, you can’t make it one. Of course if it was a functioning gun but something has broken, then you can repair and/or replace the broken item

  2. You can perform many common ‘gunsmithing’ operations yourself. Things like moungting a scope, replacing trigger, etc… on any weapon you own legally.

  3. You must be the legal owner of any of the guns or gun parts you work on.

For things like classes, the issue is much less clear, and those should be handled on a case by case basis, with the responsibility for determining the legality being the responsibility of the people who want to give the class. I would suggest that we have the committee (or a sub-committee) be responsible for approving the curriculum and law/regulation research for any such class or any other activity that is not generally understood to be legal.

Finally, we really need to be careful when attempting to regulate our members. We are not a commercial entity such as Tech shop, where we have the resources to actually monitor members and ensure compliance. We are a co-operative of volunteers. As such, we have a degree of immunity from legal responsibility for the action of a member, as long as we have written policies that our members must comply with the law. The more we try to regulate individual actions the more we can be held accountable for when we fail. And we WILL fail in such and attempt because we do not have, nor can we, the resources to perform such monitoring.

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Since there is no “Hatchers Workshop” in talk yet. I wanted to see if there was an interest in getting a auto powder trickler. I found an Lyman Gen 6 yesterday at Cabelas on sale for 188$. I throw in 50$ towards it. I did buy one for myself tested it out & found it to seem reliable. Pushed about 3 dozen charges of 4064 with it seeming to hold .1 of a gain accuracy.

I would kick in $50. 1234567890

Why trickle when you can dial direct?

Same thing. Just Lyman vs hornady
http://www.cabelas.com/product/lyman-reg-generation-6-compact-digital-powder-system/1530787.uts?searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dlyman%2Bgen%2B6%26x%3D10%26y%3D6%26WTz_l%3DHeader%3BSearch-All%2BProducts&No=0&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=lyman+gen+6

Good to see Lyman producing something modern and competitive. I love my Hornady, works a treat.

Interesting,

I know @Gimli had a specific trickler in mind that he wanted to get a few months back. Some model that is the standard in competitive shooting, I don’t remember the brand now. Hopefully the call out will pull his attention to this post. Russell also thought that if you were using a trickler you ought to have 2 of them to make it effective for reloading as one was too slow.

Also, we have gained some new knowledge about developing loads and the accuracy of the weight of the load may not have to be as narrow as we previously thought. the key point being how much gun powder is able to burn within the length of your barrel. One of the competitors he shot with at the Berger Shoot tests loads on the same target by drawing a vertical line up from the point of aim. He then shoots 3 to 5 bullet groups with the different loads. If the heavier loads hit in the same area as the lighter loads then you may have hit the maximum burn point for the barrel you have on your weapon. So if you load past that threshold you may not need as much accuracy. Kind of a cool idea.

Also, this model has a good review on accurateshooter.com
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/2200x1650/Primary/772/772151.jpg
Review: http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/digital-powder-dispensers-part-two/
Shop: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/772151/rcbs-chargemaster-1500-powder-scale-and-dispenser-combo-110-volt

Does anyone have a chrono to use when testing the loads?

I have a chronograph. Nick, I timed how long it takes to drop 40 grains of powder. It only takes 15-20 seconds.

That seems fast,

But, you should know that I’m just sharing the views I heard from Russel on the special tickler he was talking about. It may have been a slower version. I believe it was closer to 30 seconds per charge. I’ve never used a trickler, just listened to others talk about the process.

How long do you think it takes to set a bullet after dropping the charge? 5 maybe 10 seconds so if you were doing 200 rounds you would probably be waiting 5 to 10 seconds per charge for the trickler. Making the job and hour plus, rather than 30 to 45 minutes. I think this is where Russell was saying 2 tricklers would be the efficient method, because you would always have a charge ready to drop.

We are talking pretty pie in the sky here though and if you guys are willing to buy what you want I won’t poo poo it. I like the interest and after reading the up on tricklers that one seems ok. The review mainly griped it was hard to clear the powder out of and that the scale wasn’t useful for other functions because the trickler got in the way. The model I posted has a scale than can be removed, and is easier to clean up. So the scale can be multi-use. That is about the only plus I’ve read for the price difference.

Found a video,

I would guess that the time it takes is related to charge size. A small charge should be much faster then a larger one.

So far I have no complaints about the Gen 6. It’s pretty damn easy to clean. You can pull the parts out without spilling. I think it will be a lot faster than my uni-flow & manually trickling. That usually can take a couple minutes to get one charge thrown.

This was one of the batter videos covering the Gen 6.

Found a video of the trickler Russell told me of.

Holy crap. That’s a lot to that. I hear they are quite expensive & only come as a lease.

If this happens, it means you are using too slow a powder. With an appropriate powder, muzzle velocity will continue to rise with increasing charge weight until maximum pressure is exceeded. If velocity rises, the law of gravity says it will not strike a given target (at a fixed distance) in the same place, unless you change the sights. Physics is physics.

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I’m interested in joining.

-Kyle Crothers

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Hi Kyle,
We are trying to set up the room currently. Then we will be teaching more caliber specific reloading classes as well as classes on the other tools used in brass maintenance. Just drop by the room and say hi. I’m usually around Wednesdays after work.

I’d be interested too.