Changes in technology - Are lasers the new scrollsaw?

Woodshop
#1

These types of topics draw a lot of ire but let’s keep it civil. This is just one of those types of topics that come up for conversation.

Technology causes a lot of changes in how we work. I don’t think anyone can deny that lasers are doing a LOT of the shaping and piercing work that was usually done on a scrollsaw. So question one becomes have lasers basically obsoleted the scrollsaw? (yes, other machines such as CNCs do that too, but that would have to be a separate topic). Is the little use of our own scrollsaw an indication of that?

Second more contentious discussion is whether ‘hand made’ on a scrollsaw better? I’ve done both saw work and laser work for 18 years. In the early days of lasering I did a lot of scroll saw patterns. Edges are clean, the work is done quickly and it sold well. However, there was a LOT of pushback from other vendors mostly because they saw it as taking money from them. Personally, I was once kicked off an scrollsaw forum for showing and even discussing laser work. I was told I didn’t belong. It never happened to me, but I heard of crafts persons being denied entry into some craft shows if they lasered the work. Of course that was years ago, and nowadays laser work is everywhere.

While work does go into design and actually cutting and finsishing the laser work, it is or is not arguably ‘hand crafted’. But then the same would be said by someone hand carving a piece of wood vs using a hand router or power carver. So lets say someone asks for a SQUARE. You cut it out on the scrollsaw and I cut it on the laser. Is the saw cut one better? Would the dimensions be exact? or the edges clean?
The laser is certainly a convenience and versatile tool. And since I do that for a living I find some satisfaction in it, just as I did when I did scrollsaw work.

So let’s hear those opinions on how the technology has changed this portion of woodworking and see where it goes. We can discuss other machines later if this goes over. Cheers!

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#2

I certainly think the laser is a better way to go. It’s a much more accurate and consistent reproduction of the source work. A scrollsaw is still useful for situations that couldn’t be laser cut (material or thickness issues).

I can also see how someone who makes a living by using a scrollsaw would look for every opportunity to exclude laser cut work from their market. It’s faster to produce, requires less skill, and can sell for cheaper, despite being incredibly similar.

Someone might make the point that it’s not ‘handmade’ and it doesn’t have the minor imperfections that give a piece ‘character’. But traditionally marquetry, for example, is all about being precise and as accurate as possible. Since you get better results with a laser, I’m not sure why you wouldn’t use it.

#3

But didn’t the scroll saw become a quicker way to create an item rather than free sewing by hand?

At one time if you needed a board it had to be Hands-On technology has changed at one time Sawmills were water-powered and they could only be located on some streams then we developed electrical power and a sawmill could be anywhere. Then we developed power in your house and you can have a saw in your home. Technology advances and what we can do changes. It still takes an artist to design it.

One of the things technology ghost do often is it removes the need for having a workshop a people to create art. If you look at artists of the past from Renaissance Masters like Michelangelo two more contemporary artists like Tiffany. They had entire Studios of artists that followed their designs. Michelangelo did not paid all of the Sistine Chapel ceiling he actually only painted some parts of it. But it was all his design and he oversaw the execution. The same thing with Tiffany are Faberge. In one of the Imperial Easter eggs Faberge included a replica the Royal Coach. The coach is a perfect representation of the coach even down to things like Springs he did not make the coach he hired a coach maker to design and to help guide others in making it in materials to coachmaker didn’t know how to use. But it is still considered to be forever Shades work.

The the big difference is that technology often allows one to make many identical copies of something quicker and more precisely then they did in the past. We often seem to get some lot stuck on the term handmaid. And in some wise I feel it is often used as a type of artistic snobbery.

What technology does is to allow a single person to create more items at a price that is Affordable two more people. A piece of artisan design jewelry IRA handmade suit. Would expect a bespoke suit to be totally hand-sewn but they probably would have 200 years ago. That doesn’t make it unless your suit. Semantics

#4

I think the main advantage of a scroll saw over a laser is the edges look nicer. Instead of being charred black they’re the same color of wood. You can sand them in some cases but in fine detail works you’re not going to be able to sand that char away.

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#5

It depends on what I’m doing.

Precise - Laser. If it needs to be precise - laser. You betcha. I make fixtures for pin routing and other miniature projects and the laser is a fabulous tool. I can’t manage to get it done completely soot-free so I rarely use the laser for the work piece itself. Laser is also a good tool for marking a design that I choose to hand cut.

Roughing - scroll saw

Delicate - jeweler’s saw. If it’s extremely tiny/intricate, or I don’t want the cuts vertical (think miniature dovetails) - then jeweler’s saw is the way to go. Sometimes I just enjoy doing some fretwork as a mindless thing - kinda fun.

If I only want one item and I don’t want to drive to the DMS laser, then the tools at home will work.

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#6

I’ve been seeing the term ‘laser scroll saw’ thrown about on the web.

#7

There’s a pretty big rift in the cosplay community about this same kind of thing with 3d printers.
Some people argue that 3d printing a prop that you modeled isn’t the same as making it by hand. But anyone who has done cad modeling can tell you it’s as much a skill as sculpting, just different skills.

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#8

YES, exactly. I keep trying to improve my organic modeling. Not being someone who can draw by hand makes it just as tough as - well, not being able to draw by hand.

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#9

I’m in the same boat. I can mechanical model but organic is beyond me.

#10

Last time I checked, people were not using lasers to do compound cuts typically performed on a scroll saw.

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#11

Arguably though learning to draw first would make a huge difference in the output of your digital designs. Most of what I’ve seen you post lately is cross contour related.

The short answer is you need to have both skill sets if you want to be a rockstar at either

#12

that is true. Arguably, the CNC is the new answer for that. But that’s a different discussion.

#13

One could argue that even using a scroll saw it isn’t even hand made. You are using a machine to do the work. All you are doing is guiding it. That doesn’t differ from a laser because you have to creat the file which in itself is a “guide”. Any time we make something we are using machines to do so. Additionally you can take it down further. Did they specifically grow that trees for that process? Did they cut it down and process it into the base material? Not likely.

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#14

The only good argument I’ve heard is that a laser/cnc mill/3d printer makes it easier to repeat the action for multiple copies

#15

It’s been a while since I’ve seen the terms but those that advocated the use of only hand tools and no machines were termed neanderthal and I can’t remember what us machine users were called (someone will chime in). The point being that when the neanderthals complained to the tool users about the modern users weren’t producing handmade work, the argument usually went to:
Did you grow the tree you got the wood from?
Did you chop it down and dry the wood and plane it to size?
Did you forge your nails or make the hide glue?

You see where it’s going. I don’t really care, I like making stuff. But it’s really amazing that the Shakers are often pointed to as those that did everything by hand, when in reality they were very innovative at inventing things to make life easier to do work. Here are some of their inventions from wikipedia:

the power sources were still manual but having a washing machine sure cut out beating the clothes on a rock. cheers!

#16

I don’t know the question still exists: If you cut a simple square on a scrollsaw, a laser or a cnc - is the scrollsaw ‘better’? Once you get into joinery the question of best fit comes in. I’m sure those that hand cut dovetails would have a completely different opinion. Again, this is just intended to be a fun conversation as it’s easy to see who grew up doing hand work vs. machine work, and those who have adopted a new way just 'cause it made sense. cheers!

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#17

Well, the first wood burning stove was patented in the 1500’s and the Shaker movement started in the 1740’s, so I’d take this list with a grain of salt.