I appreciate everyone’s candour, and I love the passion. Clearly, many “makers” are “petrolheads” as well. Or maybe it’s the other way 'round. Point is, we are NOT unique; there are spaces like ours worldwide where “hackers” and “robotitsts” and “petrolheads” and “tinkerers” all want to be able to work. Some of them accommodate (allegedly, from the rumors on the Interwebnetomatronic) automotive work, to the point of “advertising” automotive maintenance classes. Although the articles I saw might be out of date, one of those is ATX Hackerspace here in our own state, which lends a special bit of relevance. I understand how much effort has been put in, and having shared in bits of information dropped here and there from time to time, I know many of us pay special attention to what other “maker-like spaces” are doing. Have we asked them how their handling insurance? Specifically if they offer automotive classes?
Secondly, this comes up frequently, I think, because it is poorly documented. This conversation, essentially, needs to be added to the wiki, maybe stickied, certainly in the “about automotive category” in Talk, etc., in honest, up-front, plain language, not dissimilar to what Andrew LeCody posted. Essentially, let all potential members know that we are ACTIVELY WORKING to prevent growth in the automotive activity not because we want to, but because we cannot find any way other than how it is now due to insurance limitations. The invitations to help find another way can be included, and I thank Robert Davidson for his elaboration on the sacrifices folks have already made to get us as far as we are now. If others (like myself) want to push forward from here, ain’t nothing but us standing in our own way. Self-insured organizations which own their assets right down to the ground don’t care about any of this crap. That leaves most of us in this boat.
Thirdly, I think it might make this all much easier if automotive spun off into a cooperative organization and run in a “Jack Junkies” kind of way. I think some folks here once were acquainted with the folks who ran that, and I’d sure like to hear their story. I thought their effort kicked ass, was sad to see it go, but as in so many tragic situations, was left only frustrated with no explanation of its passing. At least they posted it on the web site. I think MyBay in Denton is still operational, and that gives me hope that something like a non-profit version could actually work. With a “parent” connection like DMS, maybe even thrive.
TLDNR: Thanks for an honest discussion. Let’s get this stuff documented and “in your face” for hopeful new members so we can avoid this in future. Is DMS automotive prime for a spinoff?
) number of employees to work on vehicles vs anyone who walks in off the street up to Y (where Y is currently less than 7 billion 
).