Science Committee is considering the purchase of a FLIR ONE for Android. It is capable of shooting photos and video that show the temperatures of objects between -4°F to 248°F (-20° to 120°C) in 0.18° F (0.1° C) increments.
Considering that I’m looking at spending about half the money that Science Committee has, I’d really like to know that this device would be appreciated.
Yes! I can see quite a few committees using this, too (Automotive, Electronics, even Infrastructure).
Yes! I’ve been wanting to use one for a long time.
It’s only $249… Kewlness!
I’ll pitch in $10, if that will help…
This would be valuable for the vacuformer - you’d be able to get consistent temp measurements for your own “secret process/set-up”
Thanks! Every bit helps. In fact, I’m wondering how I’m going to replace the Science Committee funds after we buy this.
I’ll contribute another $20. I used to take IR photos, not active imaging (800nm~1000nm) of forging operations I covered. Made hot metal and furnaces look wild most were >1500F.
I was under the impression that this sensor was something like 32x32 resolution superimposed on a visible light sensor because devices at a similar price have been such. It’s 640x480 which surprised me and is very impressive for a thermal imaging sensor in that price range. If you move forward with this maybe do a consent agenda item on the next board meeting with matching funds ($1 donation to $1 DMS funds) and include the price of a Android tablet like the Nexus 9 to be paired with the device permanently.
Yep don’t be fooled it’s 160×120 superimposed. I have the 2014 Flir One (Iphone) there are Pro’s and Con’s.
Pro:
Price
Form Factor
get’s you the feel of thermal imaging
Cons:
Limited Temp Range
Must be extremely close (If you have used commercial thermal this is not even close)
Thermal Camera does not always align with video source.
Resolution is nothing compared to a commercial unit (Commercial is much more expensive so to be expected)
It requires a phone to go with it
It has some value but I think of it as more of a toy than an instrument of precision.
I’m down to pitch in $20 as I was recently considering purchasing the iOS FLIR One. My particular use case was for finding bug nests and/or water leaks in the walls of my house. I know that at one point there was a page and person in charge of checking out loaner equipment in that way but I think it went defunct (due to liability?).
-the purring dork
Richard and Gang,
Yep don’t be fooled… I have the 2014 Flir One (Iphone) there are Pro’s and Con’s.
Robert is correct; I have experience in using commercial thermal imaging cameras and while this is an attractive looking option there are several things to consider:
I would think twice about spending money on something that you won’t actually get until perhaps November / December. Double check with the distributor(s) first.
Yep don’t be fooled it’s 160×120 superimposed.
Also, resolution is not everything, though more is generally better. You have to consider the actual optics and FOV (Field of View) as some cameras have too much or too little zoom to be useful depending on the application.
Thermal camera manufacturers are very good at making crappy cameras appear to image better than they actually do. I would get this from Amazon or another retailer where it is easy to return if performance is unsatisfactory.
Limited Temp Range
Agreed, very.
It is -20 F to 248 F which is pretty narrow depending on your application. For home energy audits or predictive maintenance on electrical it may do okay, but automotive and other industrial usage may be limited.
I have the Seek UW Thermal Imager for Android (same price and available now) and it has a broader temperature range (-40 F to 626 F) but a narrower field of view (36 degrees horizontal vs. 56 degree for the FLIR) and a 206 X 156 resolution. It also has a cool feature where you can “set” a temperature and it will highlight everything either above or below that set temp.
The downsides are that from what I am hearing, the images are not as good as the FLIR, it uses a split normal/thermal mode instead of two side by side cameras like the FLIR, and it can be “backwards” with respect to the phone you plug it into (like my HTC M8) in such a manner that the USB orientation will wind up taking thermal “selfies”. You then need a special extension cable and have to hold the imager by hand or another fixture which is a pain in the ass.
It also has some noticeable lag in the frame rate if you pan the camera around.
Thermal Camera does not always align with video source.
JAG “7 to 14 Micron Wavelength” MAN
Yep this is 2nd gen this is the “Advertised” but this is actually the VGA Resolution of the camera the actual Flir Sensor is 160x120. There are some applications where it would not matter such as finding water leaks etc. Just wanting you to be aware though for the money there is nothing cheaper.
@Opcode Have you sourced a phone/tablet to go with it?
It just never worked out… people would take stuff and be slow to return it. Than someone else would want to use a piece of equipment in the end it was just another burden on already difficult position of committee chair. The current standing rules do not allow for loaning of equipment to members at this time.
Yes, so far three people (including myself) have volunteered phones that we can try with it. I’m guessing that more people might offer, if I ask.
I sent an email to the FLIR Rep last night, asking him for warranty info and whether this device could be used with a tablet.
It’s true that this device is not professional-quality, but it isn’t professional-quality priced, either. My experience with these devices is that the next step up in quality above this device is out of our price range. FLIR is the market leader, with good products, so I’m inclined to buy from them. If this device proves popular, and we can raise the money, I would like to buy a better camera from them, perhaps in a year or two.
Edit:
For comparison, Fluke offers a complete line of thermal imaging cameras, of which the lowest-cost, entry-level model starts around $1200:
Here is Slashgear’s review of the FLIR ONE for Android:
"FLIR ONE is a camera made for a wide variety of uses. Seeing places that are hot - that’s the primary function. Looking at a motor, seeing places that are heating up. Watching a friend’s phone to see what happens when they play a high-demand game for too long.
“Another place you might use FLIR ONE is in investigations of your entertainment system, seeing potential flare-up points. That’s one hot laptop.”
Edit II:
Here is a better spec sheet:
Thanks for reviewing the Seek for us. I looked up some information, for comparison. Seek comes in two models, with either a 20° or 36° field-of-view (the narrower FOV gives it greater telescopic range, potentially imaging up to 1800 feet). Either model has slightly greater resolution than FLIR’s version.
One thing I like about FLIR is that they have a developer’s SDK for their camera, and a community for supporting people who would like to write apps for the camera. In fact, we might like to start an interest group at DMS for developing thermal camera apps, or, at least, learning to hack the thermal camera. I haven’t seen that from either Fluke or Seek. (Edit: Seek says they intend to release an SDK later this Summer: http://support.thermal.com/hc/en-us/articles/204681869-Is-there-an-SDK- ).
Here is Seek’s website:
Here is a year-old review of the Seek (it compares the Seek with the first-gen FLIR ONE):
http://www.geek.com/chips/seek-thermal-a-199-thermal-cam-add-on-for-ios-and-android-1605350/
Richard,
Thanks for reviewing the Seek for us.
I appreciate the kudos, but it is hardly comprehensive. My aim was to educate / advise on several factors to consider with thermal imaging before being seduced by sexy false color photos. And BTW, most professionals find B&W mode to be more definitive in finding issues. The color tends to be more of a “Wow, isn’t this cool?” marketing hook.
with either a 20° or 36° field-of-view (the narrower FOV gives it greater telescopic range, potentially imaging up to 1800 feet)
Actually, you probably do not want the 20 degree view as even the 36 degree has too much zoom for my taste. I consider the FLIR 56 degree to be better for general purpose. Also I doubt the SEEK is conventionally useful at longer ranges - I can just about guarantee that trying to gain relevant info at 1800 feet is a fantasy with that product.
Here is a year-old review of the Seek (it compares the Seek with the first-gen FLIR ONE):
More recent reviews tend to favor the 2nd Gen FLIR over the Seek and I would be interested in comparing the two as far as optics and capability. But then there is that month(s) long wait in line to find out.
One thing I like about FLIR is that they have a developer’s SDK for their camera, and a community for supporting people who would like to write apps for the camera. In fact, we might like to start an interest group at DMS for developing thermal camera apps, or, at least, learning to hack the thermal camera.
I agree that is a significant and attractive consideration - SEEK tends to lock down their software a bit more than I like. I am concerned one day they will come out with an Android App update that includes a digital ransom note or rips features away.
JAG " HEAT SEEKING FLIR" MAN
That’s good to know.
It sounds like you have quite a bit of knowledge in this area. Do you think you would be able to teach some classes on thermal imaging?
Yeah, well, considering that we apparently won’t be using the device outside of the building, 1800 feet isn’t too useful to us. I’m skeptical of the claim, anyway, as water vapor greatly reduces range.
For reference, the FLIR ONE is supposed to allow visibility up to 100 feet (FLIR notes that water vapor will reduce this range).
That gives us time to raise the money, and maybe think some more about exactly which device we might like to get. I’m still leaning strongly towards the FLIR ONE, but I’m open to alternatives.
Edit: Oh, and about that lag in the frame rate when you pan the camera around, that’s probably because the camera was set at <9 Hz refresh rate. That’s apparently common, as I saw the same thing on Fluke’s website, and I think even some of FLIR’s cameras could potentially operate in that mode (I don’t recall if the FLIR ONE does). FLIR also has a 60 Hz mode, at least for some of its cameras.
Hate to burst everybody’s bubble but based on the membership fees raising discussion going on, I’d say it’s not needed as much as I would love to use it as an Energy Manager. Good kinds are expensive, easily broken.
Membership fees have nothing to do with this, unless the Board is funding it. I intend to take Luke’s suggestion to ask the Board for matching funds, but the whole thing only costs $250. That’s like a rounding error in terms of the total DMS budget.
Richard,
It sounds like you have quite a bit of knowledge in this area. Do you think you would be able to teach some classes on thermal imaging?
I know something about exotic imaging in general, but there is a buddy of mine who is an expert thermographer and taught me the most about thermal infrared as far as hands on. Let me talk to him and see if he is willing to join me as a support expert as then I would learn some new things.
That gives us time to raise the money,
Exactly.
and maybe think some more about exactly which device we might like to get. I’m still leaning strongly towards the FLIR ONE, but I’m open to alternatives.
I agree that the FLIR ONE appears to have better imaging and I like the dual camera mode for superimposition. I think you should go for that one at this time.
Edit: Oh, and about that lag in the frame rate when you pan the camera around, that’s probably because the camera was set at <9 Hz refresh rate.
I will look into that - thanks for the heads up and I will keep you posted.
Good kinds are expensive, easily broken.
We don’t need professional level or expensive, just good enough.
JAG “Seeing The Invisible Realm” MAN
Just an option but we could get a FLiR Dev Kit that has a IR sensor that can be attached to a Raspberry Pi: