If you can print some, I’ll find a backdoor to distribute. Hospitals will directly say no(god bless legal liability shit even during a plague), but if you give staff directly, they’ll use them.
There is a test they can use at home to see if it works, they fit on mask, use a sickly sweet spray and try to see if they can smell it. If they can’t, they’re good to go. Perfume apparently is used at home in a pinch.
I wonder if it might be safer to fabricate a PAPR (forced air respirator) that uses off-the-shelf (and actually available) HEPA filters like below. It’s clearly more complex and would require a fan, rechargeable battery, etc. Corrugated 1" pond tubing could get the air from the 3D printed waist pack to the mask.
The advantage of a positive-pressure mask is that it can tolerate leaks (at the mask itself) more safely because of the outward airflow. It’s also supposedly much more comfortable (cooler and dryer) than a traditional mask. Multiple people (not simultaneously) could share waist-packs while having their own masks and hoses.
Maybe hare-brained. I’m just bored right now and was thinking about it.
“If i can print some”
I am expressly asking Dallas makerspace to open their doors specifically for this project. We have so much ability and expensive machinery sitting dormant that our community needs desparately. and i know we have people reading this thread doing tele work from home with expensive 3d printers decorating their garage. this is your chance to be a hero.
@mdredmond this project is attainable with simple box enclosures. those can be made pretty much any which way! and spare cpu fans! which run on 12v so easy enough to jerry rig any ol power supply. that and masks would be easier to make, even just a plastic bag ironed onto a fabric mask would hypothetically be sufficent!
I doubt an opening is gonna happen. There are good reasons for the closure to continue.
I mean if you created a legit solid model of a waist-pack and could offer it to the Board for Laser Chair only to go up and start some prototype jobs, you might gain some headway.
But DMS isn’t going to open for tinkering. It might open in an extremely limited way, for an extremely limited number of people, for a legit and selfless plan that includes zero fun or personal projects.
In other words, DMS might donate some of its resources to address a community emergency only.
This is what i’m getting at actually.
That’s how I read your proposal.
Have you emailed [email protected] with your proposal? I think that’s the right way to go about asking the BoD for such an exception to the standing closure…
We donated 5k plus single use ACTUAL n95 frr. I don’t want to quote OSHA chapter and verse, but we did our job. It’s not about the printed paintball masks, it’s the fact they are 95% effective at a size 0.3um that the virus is much smaller. NIOSH has laws that the hospitals must still follow, etc.
3d print things to keep people’s hands from touching stuff yes yes yes… but we should most definitely NOT print masks nor mask parts.
Are N95 Masks Really Effective against the flu?
A little online research will reveal that the flu virus is .17 microns in size. Clearly smaller than even N100 masks can filter out. However, it is critical to understand that the flu virus does not float in the air by itself. The flu virus is transported from patient to patient on droplets of excretions from sneezing and coughing. These particles are typically 5 microns or larger. When a sick patient wears a respirator, the respirator can be very effective at preventing infectious material from leaving the patients body, and when worn by healthy individuals, it prevents inhalation of said material. More importantly, wearing a mask is a excellent way of preventing the user from rubbing or touching their mouth or nose, which is a very high risk factor. At the end of the day will an N95 mask guarantee to protect you from the Flu? No. But it can substantially reduce your risk or receiving or transmitting the disease.
perfect is the enemy of good enough.
also, raw filter material of the correct nm resistance can be bought or otherwise acquired.
I should share that SURGICAL MASKS which do not have the same rating are running just as low as n95s. The surgical masks have a much lower rating but are still far better than nothing. They are used for the general hospital populace.
We’re all engineers / thinkers here, most of us anyway. We can understand that a trend is happening and a week or two from now will be too late.
I am linking my google drive document proposal here as I am collecting more information relevant to my proposal. My proposal grows as more anecdotes are collected and information is found.
Below is a copy of the email I sent to the board of directors. There were unclear instructions on agenda items being “submitted to the wiki within 48 hours” but no specific context on how or where or what format. As for the 48 hour deadline, The design I am proposing was released online something in the range of 3 days ago
https://copper3d.com/hackthepandemic/
design and explanation can be found at the link above.
Supplies:
3d printing filament (PLA or ABS)
Sponge Rubber Foam (Cosplay department might have some)
HEPA air filters - cut into squares / circles – anti microbial rated or higher!
Plumbing gaskets - 1 or 2 per mask. (the specific gasket size will need to be specified )
Plumbing epoxy. (or other strong airtight bond.
Elastic 1/4 or 1/2 inch, or string / twine. fasteners
I propose that we post on talk asking members to drop off relevant donation supplies into the delivery drop box outside the entrance to minimize contact.
Construction:
The construction would require running 3d printers, which ideally would be done night and day until filament supplies are exhausted. I personally can run the night shift as I am going to start tele work soon and call volume is slow on overnights, I would just need an ethernet connection to continue doing my work taking emergency calls for Thyssenkrupp.
Running the printers around the clock would be vital as time is more expensive than filament when it comes to slow 3d printers.
The HEPA filter material cut to size / shape. Plumbing gaskets would fit into the fitting, creating an air tight seal except for the filter.
The foam would be precut to the edges and ship with the product, unattached waiting final fastening.Cosplay style EVA foam is more than sufficient as a seal and is identical to the design found in the famously scarce n95 that health care workers use.
An efficient way to do the repetitive eva foam cuts would be to have an template and simply repetively drag a box cutter / roatary cutter around the edges. Drawing up a CNC design for the EVA cut would require far too much troubleshooting. Time is of the essence.
The final assembly:
Final assembly would happen with the person receiving the item:
either boiling hot water, hot hair dryer, or heat gun to soften the plastic, then apply to face fitting. Ensuring firm nose bridge contact and cheek/ chin coverage. Connecting / contacting the chin edges with the bottom cheek edges.
We can post a short cell phone video instructing how to fit. Minimal video editing. Time is of the essence and we need the information out.
Shipping bag contents:
printed mask
10 HEPA filter papers cut to the size.
1 pumbing gasket
eva foam cutout. for the reciving health provider to glue during assembly.
https://copper3d.com/hackthepandemic/
"What about the legal liabilty" You might be thinking.
The CDC has guidelines allowing for emergency measures when needed. Adaptive respriators and even down to advising health care workers to use cloth masks. This mask, i firmly believe if deployed will be FAR more effective than a cloth mask. Cloth masks have actually been proven by some studies to be WORSE than wearing nothing at all.
I dont know if you have been reading the news, but we are at a extreme shortage of PPE in medical facilities. even ones right down the street. I am close friends with a veterinarian in Denton that is currently working with minimal PPE (face shield) because her backstock was donated to a quarrantine ward directly. That supply has likely been since used up.
Doctors are out there REUSING DISPOSABLE MASKS. This proposal aims to resolve that.
I would need exactly one evening at the makerspace with applicable materials to do a test construction. Perfume is often used as a poor man’s test. If it can be smelled, then particles have transmitted past the mask. I personally recommend Obsession by Calvin Klein.
The individual health care providers are free to accept these donations. I have spoken to several health care providers, even those not working in the COVID quarrantine wards that would love to have these. The individual health care workers are free by CDC guidelines to make decisions on PPE, and I strongly feel these masks are better than reusing disposable masks with degrading filtration quality.
Further than that, these masks can be distributed to various at risk groups that are public facing whenther delivery drivers, store employees, etc.
I will gladly share more details with the board members as needed. I understand you guys are having a video conference on Sunday. I beseech our Board of Directors to consider my proposal.
When we tell our grandchildren what we did during the epidemic that killed 700 people PER DAY IN ITALY I will be absolutely goddamned if my answer to the next generation is “I sat around watching Japanese Cartoons on Netflix waiting to be told what to do”
This proposal is linked at the top of this post as it is adapting and growing in size to fit the needs of the adapting and growing size 
3D printers are slow. Injection molding is fast.
Have you thought about getting an injection mold engineer to teach us how to make something useful on the HAAS that a local plastics company could use to spit out a plastic part every ten seconds?
Can the materials we need even be cut out on our laser cutters?
Should your time be first spent talking to mask manufacturers about what we can and can’t do for them with the tools we have at our disposal?
this sounds like something that someone else could be doing? who else can we talk to? I’m only one person.
currently revising my proposal to include more details and contigencies.
just confirmed with an unnamed source in oregon that surgical masks are being reused all day, bypassing the “letter of the law” that we’re all clutching our pearls about in forums.
I will be adjusting my proposal to a link to a document as I am still developing it to completion.
ABS and PLA in an FDM process are porous materials that trap bacterial and moisture, and FDM as a process makes a result that’s harder to sterilize due to surface irregularities. This is why it’s always been recommended one not make foodstuffs with typical 3d printing and materials.
The purpose of a filter mask like these is moot if the mask itself introduces more problems.
I find this extremely suspect in the context presented, as surgical masks aren’t even intended to protect the wearer like an n95 is.
so far everyone that’s asked about this has been someone advocating with a group on facebook, but not actually anyone that from those supposed hospitals that allegedly want 3d printed masks to replace n95
thank you for your feedback and knowedge.
what about vacu form? would that produce less porous materials?
are there other fabrication methods?
what if it was a metal socket for the filter fitment?
what if this was supplemented with an exhale valve?
The 3d printed design is mean to be thin, and somewhat malleable, and can be supplemented with EVA foam around the edges, the way a n95 mask is.
And you are correct, The surgical masks are not intended to protect like an n95. This is precisely how dire of a situation i am painting. nurses in the general floor (not the quarrantine wards) are reusing general purpose surgical masks. How many of them are being exposed to asymptomatic carriers? How dangerous is it for nurses to reuse equipment that is expressly porous and not reusable even with washing?
the print design i am proposing is washable with soap and water. it’s not sterile. But then again not many things are, and it’s a vast improvement over our current n95 shortage worldwide. I’m not saying people want to replace the n95. im saying the n95s are rapidly running out.
cross posting. the anecdotes are pouring in. help is needed. we have so many printers sitting dormant.
And right there you’ve lost me.
You need to learn a bit more and read some. Start with the paper Freddy linked.
Hint: The size of particle specified for N/P100 is the worst-performing size and the filter is more effective on both larger and SMALLER particles.
yeah i’m retooling this a little bit still. my understanding from medical people is the real goal is filtering out airborne moisture that carries these viruses.
I am currently in the process of gathering this formally
Depends on the plastics, but you still have to account for fitment.
I’m referring to fitment around the face, not the filters. Filters will not be the source of air intake if fitment is not correct.
Two problems: first, it doesn’t solve the breathing in problem; second, it now allows for the medical professional to contaminate those they are treating. The choice of n95 is particular in that it protects both the patient, and the wearer. Whereas a typical surgical mask only protects the patient (beyond basic blood splash for the wearer). In a medical environment, especially those involving triage who interact with the most people, a crucial component is preventing yourself from becoming a transmission vector (especially with an asymptomatic incubation period).
you can’t properly dry these masks, and the introduction of moisture and grooves that are difficult to clean introduces bacteria growth. I’m not talking autoclave sterile, I’m talking I wouldn’t even trust an FDM printed piece of PLA to use as a dinner plate without a lot of planning. Quick reference: https://formlabs.com/blog/guide-to-food-safe-3d-printing/#fdm
If an official at a hospital reached out, and after noting these caveats still wanted them, I’d side with it. But right now I’m seeing a lot of enthusiasm and little reality check happening, and makers are known for being passionate about doing something but not explaining things well enough to people not already familiar with 3d printing. I’d be willing to wager that the same group of people asking for these masks to be made aren’t aware of the implications of FDM prints or the common filament choices in a sanitary environment. We are, and an important point to determine is if they’d still want the prints knowing that they are not cleanable in the ways people imagine they are, and once they try them if the loss of breathability and fitment impacts ability to do work in a high-stress environment where one does not have the time to fiddle with it, or check the contents of that weather stripping in that design to see if it will cause a rubber allergy versus a well-known paper mask. What if two different brands are used, is one actually rubber and the other some different synthetic?
No no no. Don’t worry about the filter. The filter itself is too technical for any of us to screw with. It needs to be at least N95 or preferably P100/[quote=“brenly, post:46, topic:70024”]
my understanding from medical people is the real goal is filtering out airborne moisture that carries these viruses.
[/quote]
NIH has published many papers, free for us to read, on the efficiency of various masks. That’s the place to start.
Positive pressure and fitment around face matters much less.