The sap issues are from southern yellow pine, not the “white woods”. Yellow pine is a very strong material. Useful for a variety of projects that do not include a house. It is as easy to distinguish from whitewoods as Douglas Fir (a brittle, splintery wood)
Does the ban include Spruce variations?
I disagree. A lot of projects are created in Pine because it is inexpensive. The last project I did in woodshop was squaring up 2x4s.
Ok fair point. I’ve not thought about prototyping much, I just jump in feet first.
Just curious, what was the project?
I used yellow pine to make a thick, laminated workbench top. I still need to laminate the legs and start on the joinery. Most of this can be done on a table saw, but I certainly could not have afforded to do this with hardwoods, and yellow pine is far more suitable for my project than spruce, white pine, or fir. I also allowed the wood to dry substantially before I began working it to minimize issues from wet sap.
I would honestly not be able to tell you the differences between them when looking at pine vs anything close to it (I could probably tell you between Oak and Pine, but wouldn’t want to count on that). I too don’t have much of a horse in this race (I don’t do much woodwork) but this seems like a bad decision to me, as there are probably a lot of people in the same boat as I am. I use the woodshop probably 3-4 times annually, and usually, the type of wood is the last thing on my mind.
Can someone clarify a little? Is there now a single saw that we are allowed to run pine through? Is it the chop/radial arm saw?
Were there other options thrown out at the meeting to deal with pitch buildup? A ban seems a bit excessive, especially in a general purpose woodshop.
Is there a monthly maintenance/cleanup day (I haven’t seen anything on the calendar but I am fairly new)? Buildup is easily removed with alcohol and some scrubbing as long as it is done routinely and not allowed to build up to a point of failure.
I also see a huge opportunity for classes in wood identification, how grain effects the wood, Drying processes, knots and bleeding, as well as finishes and how the wood behaves after a piece has been put together.
I understand that 2x4s are supposed to be used “for framing” but I use them for all kinds of things because they’re cheap, readily available, and I have no need to spend more for expensive wood for the kinds of things I’m building.
I built an awesome table top out of boards I found in the bargain bin at HD!
I also understand that some of these boards literally have pockets of sap that will run out and get all over the machines… THAT’S bad and maybe this is where some training should be directed at identifying and avoiding that issue.
If all the woodshop can be used for is building nice things with expensive wood, then I really have no use for it anymore. Maybe we need some “cheap tools” to be used with the cheap wood, and limit the use of pine to those tools instead? (like a “relatively” less expensive 4" jointer or a 12" planer)
I believe it’s every 2nd Wednesday of the month going forward, would have to check the notes I wrote down but I’m out of pocket atm. I have no idea what the schedule was before though, sorry.
On clarification about the saw, the table saw that was purchased for people using pressure treated wood is the only machine pine can be used on. It is a small portable one with its own stand and is kept by the miter saw I believe.
What was the cleaning schedule before this meeting, how often?
Sorry like said earlier.
Most likely that was the issue, not what was being cut. If they are not being cleaned frequently enough they will gum up. But hey not my issue anymore I’m no longer a member.
My two cents, fix the issue by cleaning regularly and don’t ban a common use wood. I mean plastic we got because it’s a woodshop, even though it shouldn’t have been an issue. Banning a wood, a common use one at that, from a woodshop is kind of stupid.
Table saw that was purchased for pressure treated wood? What?
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Category_talk:Wood_Shop
Discussed and passed in the July meeting.
It would be nice to see a list of who was there as a part of the minutes and what actual discussion was had. It’s nice to say the committee voted it but who was there and who voted?
Again banning a wood out of a wood shop seems kinda stupid to me. Especially if the issue could be solved by proper cleaning and maintenance and an enforcement of rules already existing in the shop that never get fully enforced.
Does this singular saw allow for any sort of miter cut? Ripping or resaw?
Also since I so rarely look at wood, can anyone tell me how to identify Pine vs Spruce or Fir?
It is a small table saw.
I wasn’t taking minutes, I was jotting down personal use notes and was asked to post them after the fact.
I didn’t know either. Nor that pressure treated lumber was not allowed on other machines. And I’m there more often than not.
@Nate and @indytruks138 thank you both for sharing this news, and the reasoning behind it.
Everyone else, this is a good reason to go to the next committee meeting, call for a new committee meeting, and/or talk to the chair @Azalaket and vice chair… @Mrksls2?
It is common woodworking knowledge that pine tar/sap gums up milling machines horribly. The major problem when the buildup from that sap or tar lodges itself between the blades and the surface that they attach to, causing them to shift and lift off the cutter head, throwing the alignment out of whack. This not only ruins the calibration and damages the machines, but other people’s projects as well. That is not acceptable. Also, pine tar cuts the life of the sandpaper, discs, drums, etc. By about 75%, meaning that we have to change them 3x more than without.
We are not the only Makerspace that has a ban on SYP and PTP. It is becoming common practice to ban sappy and dangerous woods at shared use woodshops.
I have heard from new members that their previous makerspace made them purchase wood from them to use in their woodshop.
There are many changes happening in the woodshop, and we will continue to do our best to ensure that they relect the overall best interest of all of our members.
Feel free to use any of the handheld power tools on SYP (as long as you know how to-and do-clean them properly after use), or PTP (outside only please) on the new portable tablesaw that is stored under the miter cabinet in the woodshop.
Citation needed. I have read hundreds of magazines on wood working. Woodsmith, Shop Notes and two decades of Fine Woodworking among my favourites.
Then I went and searched on if Pine was bad for tools. I found one link on cleaning sap. Zippo on the dangers of Pine.
I do not recall a single caution against using Pine with any tool. Discussions about it being a softwood and limited by that, yes. Often. (Southern Yellow Pine is an exception, closer to a hard wood. But sappy).
Fir as a substitute:
Fir is as much a substitute for Pine as Maple is for Walnut. You buy them in the same stores for about the same price. And that’s the only things they have in common.
Virtues of Pine beyond framing:
Source 1:
Long list of pros.
“While pine is very different than oak, it is also a good choice for furniture, depending on your purpose. It may not last quite as long as oak, but pine is still a strong, shock-resistant material suitable for furniture, particularly if you like the rustic or country styles. Over time, pine gains a patina that gives it an antique-like quality, which is an appealing look to some people. The dents and dings that are bound to show up in the wood just add to that aged look.”
Source 2:
https://www.quora.com/How-good-a-wood-is-pine-for-making-furniture
"Pine has its place in furniture. Due to its cost it is great for inexpensive pieces and great for beginners to learn on.
White Pine was installed in New England homes hundreds of years ago as flooring. Although heavily worn, it can still be found on those same floors today. There has to be something said for that alone!"
Source 3:
"Construction lumber is usually a mixture of spruce, other types of pine, and fir (SPF, for short). These woods are denser and have a more uneven texture than white pine. SPF pieces are also likely to move a lot after they’re sawn, for two reasons.
First, SPF is frequently sawn from small-diameter trees, so boards often contain the pith. Second, construction lumber has a high moisture content (MC). It’s only dried down to about 17 percent MC, so the wood has a ways to go before it stabilizes.
White pine, on the other hand, is often cut from huge trees, far from the pith, and is usually available kiln dried down to 7 to 9 percent MC, ready to be used in
the woodshop.
Once dried, white pine is exceptionally stable and a
pleasure to work. It shrinks and swells less than red oak or hard maple, for example, and is about on par with cherry. It has a uniform texture with inconspicuous growth rings, unlike construction lumber. You won’t have the aggravation of catching an edge while planing or paring through alternating sections of soft earlywood and hard latewood. Your plane or chisel just glides right through the wood–except the knots, of course."