I am for this, I’ve seen other makerspaces do this. I would probably remove my box to give the opportunity for someone else to store theirs as my car has already become project storage.
2 Likes
This will be long. I have been out of town at a show all weekend and I have been following the discussion on my pad. I thought about it a lot on the drive home (especially while stuck in an hour and half traffic jam in OK)
I am a fairly new member, and I get the reduced rate. I will be using an my honoraium from teaching to pay my dues and to help provide materials for my classes. My hubby is 65 and out of work and my income is totally from the sale of my art.
The folks that pay their $50 a month and that don’t come out and use the space, often are very beneficial. They are not using any of the power or cooling or contributing to the wear and tear on tools. This is the group that would be the most likely to not continue paying. These folks are a huge help. We need them!
We need to know more about how many folks are using the space and what areas they are using. I don’t understand why there is not a way to tell when a key has been used and how often. I am not a programmer, but that would seem to be a doable program for some of our computer techs.
If we could do this, then add an email once a month or once a quarter, asking those folks what they came to use.
That would give us input into the areas that attract the most folks. That would help with allocation of resources.
I have heard several folks mention the problem of expensive tools, that either are rarely used or that are hard to keep usable or that we ran into a problem with using. Now I can not verify that problem, but if it exists, then we need to look at that problem. May be make sure that more expensive items are suitable and generally useful.
The space is for having access to tools that are either expensive or that there is not room for and such. It is important to have those available, since they will attract new members. That said, if the monthly fee is too high, folks will buy a membership when they need the use of those items and not keep paying their membership dues. that is the worst of both worlds!
One of the great things about MS is the cross pollination between areas of interest. There are so many areas I want to investigate.
We do need to control spending and the membership need to understand that they can’t ask for the moon. Maybe more expensive items need to have a percentage come from donations toward. We need to get the members to look at things more like spending their OWN money.
I am wanting to explore more ways of coloring metal for jewelry. I have been impressed with the results that some have gotten from alcohol inks. Now these are expensive, $11-$12 for 3 small bottles. The ones I have, I have waited and used a coupon to get. I have been told that one can make their own, with india ink. I would love to see MS buy a full set of these inks, but before I even suggest it, I want to know that they will work for the metals we are using, and that there is not a cheaper alternative. I will work with the ones I have first, and confirm a useful need for them.
This is not a solution for bringing in a lot of money, but many colleges will have a student sale before Christmas. Any way we could consider that idea? A portion of the sales go to the college. Looking at some of the beautiful work coming from the woodshop, I know that folks would pay nice amounts, even for things that were in the Trash to Treasure show. (I am my mom’s daughter—she always asked "how can you make some money from that’—Yep, she was raised in the country, during the Depression. )
4 Likes
what was the thinking behind the decision to sell a machine that could work as a scanner ?
from original post/
oh and while on the subject of equipment and class fees I noticed
that the Carvewright cnc machine is no longer in the shop, I was told it
was given away, Okay first that machine was an object scanner even if
it was not anything else. I could have taught a class on the use as a
scanner and that would have been a revenue source.
it could have been sold for several hundred dollars to users in that community which may be larger than the dms community. /from original post
If I had to guess, it was probably because it was sitting on a shelf for a long time and nobody was doing anything with it, including teaching others how to use it.
Here’s the original thread: Silent auction, Delta dust collector blower, Air cleaner, CarveWright
2 Likes
From an amazon review: “You can get this sensor attachment that goes in place of the router bit. It moves back and forth scanning a 3D image into the software. This allows you to copy existing carvings.”
I knew it was a cool tool, but alas it fell into the “untrained collecting dust tool” category and got sold. We have a $25,000 MultiCAM router and a $5000 NextEngine 3D scanner, I don’t think it was a major loss.
Hey DMS Tribe,
Speaking of getting off topic, with the Open House coming up fast, perhaps it might be better to focus on the logistics of THAT for now and kind of table this topic until after the event? I seem to remember there are some excellent but still unanswered questions raised by @John_Marlow .
If we can set aside our disagreements for a few days and put on our best game face Sept. 12th, we MIGHT sign up enough members to continue building a war chest (without raising dues and blood pressures) plus make some new friends / allies in the process that will add to the fun and awesomeness of Makerspace.
JAG “Then We Can Go Back To Our Regularly Scheduled Pillow Fight” MAN
4 Likes
Here is the general fund balance over this year, this may be too basic to even be useful, but it shows that in 5 out of the past 7 months we have spent/allocated more than we brought in (moving money to savings is included here as spending, since this is only looking at general fund balance)
(And yes it does seem odd that general fund increased in one month by nearly a greater amount than we brought in from dues.)
I’m in on this as well as I don’t have a need for it at the moment but when I do I don’t feel comfortable taking up space without paying for it, it’s just like a locker at a gym or golf club.
1 Like
too much!
Try lowering costs first
I don’t understand the spreadsheet you posted.
If I take the numbers you’ve shown, I get:
Starting general fund balance: $34,013
Total dues income: $258,889
Total spending: $121,330
Ending balance: $171,572
What am I missing?
You’re missing payment of rent, electricity, water, any auto-recurring monthly committee allocations.
1 Like
I believe his ‘spending’ column only covers discretionary spending from the general fund. So about 2/3 of the spending for each month isn’t shown in that spreadsheet.
BTW, this is the basic problem with ad hoc analysis as opposed to a proper set of books, balance sheets, and such.
But again, the problem isn’t a REVENUE issue, it is a spending issue. We have gotten into the habbit of spending too easily. Adding more revenue will only exacerbate that issue.
6 Likes
The question is if we want to start spending 5,000 / month on employees and have more than just a couple thousand each board meeting for the board to allocate, we need more money, by either growing lots of members or raising rates or cutting recurring costs (if we eliminated honorariums completely, that would pay for employees)
Are we going to spend this $5000 a month on employees as a burdened or unburdened rate? (aka benefits, ssi, insurance etc)
Further, who will be their supervisor? What will be their duties, their authority, their status at the space? Will they be there only during the day or at night when most people are at the space? Will they also be members and therefore able to work on their projects during the day? Will you open up the jobs to the public? There are a lot of considerations for hiring employees. Do other Makerspaces have employees?
I don’t know all of the motivations, the necessity or the general reasoning for hiring temployees, but having been a small business owner, I can assure you that you cannot underestimate the headaches associated with ERISA, workmen’s comp, liability insurance and other workers’ rights and protections such as OSHA.
We should look at hiring service companies to provide whatever is needed before we begin hiring employees since these companies already deal with the appropriate laws and benefits. I’m not saying that employees aren’t needed, I simply don’t know this answer, but I can assure you that hiring employees is NOT a trivial matter.
4 Likes
Your question has, at its base some assumptions.
One that we need to hire two employees for $5,000 per month. The last the board mentioned the subject they hadn’t even agreed on what the job responsibilities for these employees would be.
Two, that we need the board to provide monies, in addition, to the monies already allocated to committees to buy STUFF…
If one takes the employees off the table, and I think that is appropriate for right now, the board has about $10k available in the general fund. This is more then sufficient to allow them to start saving for future moves, as well as expand our emergency reserve for unexpected expenses.
Large ticket items could be funded through donations instead of from the easy (all too easy) largess of the board. That way if you can’t get enough donations you don’t purchase something that the members obviously don’t care enough about to fund themselves. The other option for funding is for committees to take their funding and SAVE up for things they want to purchase. A process that works for most people who can’t get funding from mom and dad.
Then after a period of some fiscal restraint, we (by that I mean the members) feel that a fee increase is appropriate we implement it. Personally, I think such a proposal should be put on the ballot for the next board election, along with some needed reforms to allow voting members to actually vote on key issues.
Overall, I think an increase is likely to be necessary in the long run, but not to provide spending for STUFF, but rather to build an adequate reserve and prepare for known future expenses like moves. This proposal is not likely to satisfy either of those actual needs, but rather encourage continued proliferate spending habits for new toys.
5 Likes
That brings up a lot of big picture questions like what should members expect dues to be going towards? Just the building in general and infrastructure and then individual members should be expected to fund each committee by themselves? Or is every single committee expecting to draw from the money coming in from dues? Traditionally I think the board has leaned more towards everything being funded from the dues coming in (with some large purchases like HAAS being half funded by donations with matching funds from board)
Personally I think DMS works better by most things being supported from dues, which is part of why I think raising the fee is appropriate, your dues are supporting way more committees now than in the past, and when how many things we do is growing faster than the member rate, there is now less money available for the different committees.
Here are all the board allocated spending from the board meetings this year, under the model of all committee purchases being funded by donations directly to the committee itself, which of the following should not have been funded by the board allocating general funds? For example, should creative arts and jewelry have been expected to raise $6,000 on their own to even be able to get started? (Hard to attract donations / members when you are acquiring the basic tools needed to get something started)
Allocate $2000 to Metal Shop for Millermatic 252 (TID#5)
Allocate $1000 to Wood Shop for the purpose of handling sawdust air filtration
Set up autopayments for Digital Ocean and CloudFlare CDN/DNS
$100 authorized for Nicole Franczvai’s use in setting up photos in lobby (running total $12.99)
Allocate $972 to Digital Media with the intent of Sony camera purchase (QB#1526)
Allocate $1000 to Wood Shop for the purpose of handling sawdust air filtration (QB#1527)
Allocate $2000 to Logistics (QB#1528)
Increase monthly allocation to Logistics to $500 a month
Allocate $385 to Science Committee with the intent that they purchase Safety Goggles (QB#1529)
Allocate $100 to Science Committee with the intent that they purchase three surge protectors (QB#1530)
Allocate $400 per month for offsite storage
Purchase 3 security cameras for approximately $540
Purchase NextEngine 3D Scanner HD, ScanStudio HD PRO, MultiDrive for an estimated $4600 from General Fund
Purchase 3x 24" drum fans to replace our workshop fan for an estimated $450 from General Fund
Allocate $1500 to Digital Media Committee for upgrade of the Digital Media Workstation (trans #1497)
Allocate approximately $600 per year (recurring) for two Adobe CC Suite licenses (trans #1505)
Allocate $350 to Logistics with the intention of purchase of a vacuum cleaner (trans #1498)
Allocate $1500 to Automotive with the intention of improvements to the 240SX vehicle (trans #1499)
Purchase a year subscription of 5 licenses of lyndaPro for an estimated $1750 from General Fund
Allocate $700 to the Infrastructure Committee with the intent of their purchase of RDS Per-User CAL licenses (trans #1500)
Allocate $1100 to Logistics Committee from General fund for the purpose of construction of two workshop tables (trans #1501)
Purchase SawStop table saw
Set up a monthly stipend to the Machine Shop Committee of $300
Allocate $2380.66 to Creative Arts for the purpose of purchasing Jewelery Making equipment (trans #1502)
Liquidate the Jewelry Making project ($119.34), transferring funds to Creative Arts (trans #1503)
Upgrade to the next level of SmartWaiver that supports 600 people a month
Approve approximately $4175 from General Funds for upgrade of electricity infrastructure
Replace HVAC RTU #4
Allocate $486.77 to Machine Shop Committee as Reimbursement (QB#1423)
Purchase clamps for approximately $1344.51
Purchase carving tools for approximately $169.99
Purchase blade for table saw for approximately $59.99
Increase monthly Wood Shop budget allocation to $700 a month
Allocate $400 to Creative Arts committee for funding of Craft Show (QB#1424)
Allocate $3000 to Creative Arts for purchase of supplies (QB#1425)
Increase monthly Creative Arts budget allocation to $200 a month
Purchase reloading equipment for up to $250
Allocate $500 to Automotive Committee for ladder (QB#1426)
Adjust the current Operations Monthly allocation to flow into Logistics
Transfer $200 from the newly renamed Logistics class to the newly formed Infrastructure class (QB#1422)
Allocate $3500 to Logistics Committee for stools and tools (QB#1427)
Increase Dumpster Service to twice a week, with recycling services
Purchase Ceiling-Mount Speakers, SIP Adaptor, Speaker Wire for up to $715 from General Funds
Allocate $300 to Financial Committee (QB#1365)
Purchase 2 Security Cameras for $378 from General Funds
Purchase and install EV Charger for up to $1500 from General Funds
Purchase Windows Licenses for $1009 from General Funds
Allocate $200 to Metal Shop for production of safety signage (QB#1366)
Allocate $600 to Foundry Committee for purchase of Model A Furnace, Crucibles (QB#1367)
Allocate $12,500 to Laser Committee for purchase of Lasersaur Laser Cutter (QB#1368)
Allocate $2500 to Automotive Committee for purchase of general shop tools (QB#1369)
Establish $250 per month allocation to the Automotive Committee
Allocate $1000 to Electronics Committee (QB#1370)
Establish $250 per month allocation to the Electronics Committee
Allocate $1200 to Operations Committee for their purchase and construction of a computer for Electronics Committee (QB#1371)
Transfer $10000 from General Fund to Savings Fund
Transfer $1500 in funds from General Fund to Automotive Committee [BPG: QB Entry #1340]
Purchase 8 tables at approximately $874.96
Initiate lease of Parts Washer at $350 per month
Spend up to $600 from General Funds for Parts Washer install costs
Spend up to $2500 from General Funds for purchase of AED Unit and Oxygen through Cintas
Spend up to $150 out of General Fund for purchase of 2x “Dremel-Style” Tool
Transfer $395 from General Fund to Wood Shop [BPG: QB Entry #1341]
Transfer $433 from General Fund to Wood Shop [BPG: QB Entry #1342]
Spend up to $200 from General Funds for membership in MetroCrest Chamber of Commerce for one year
Increasing monthly Operations Committee funding to $300 per month
Spend up to $2395 from General Funds for purchase of PolyPrinter 229
Approve up to $8500 for purchase of new air compressor and related resources
Allocate $280 for the purchase two maintained first aid kits through Cintas
Allocate $50 a month to pay Cintas for the service of maintaining the two above first aid kits [BPG: Cintas First Aid Maintenance Class created, with monthly allocation of $50]
Allocate up to $500 for collection and set up of signage and materials for immediate safety needs
Allocate $800 for the purchase of fire protection equipment
Allocate $165 for the purchase of 3x Wireless Heat Detector
Allocate $6600 for running power and circuit breaker panels for CNC router, add panels for woodworking area, additional 3 phase power
Allocate $1000 to Workshop Committee for ducting parts [BPG: QB Entry #1265]
Allocate $500 to the newly formed Metal Shop Committee [BPG: QB Entry #1266]
Allocate $400 to Operations Committee to maintain general operations spending [BPG: QB Entry #1267]
The board already supplies a number of committees with funds through allocation. No one is suggesting removal of the allocations.
Also all committees receive honorariums for classes they sponser.
The issue is should general funds be used to purchase expensive toys based solely upon whether a commitee chair can convince three of the five board members.
The fact that we have significant overspent would indicate it shouldn’t. At least until we get to the point of demonstrated fiscal restraint.
We are already past the build up stage where we needed to acquire basic equipment. We already have basic equipment for most things. We also have the ability to raise the money for anything we could reasonably want through three sources; existing allocations, honorariums, and donations. Yes that is slower then asking Mom and Dad for a handout, but that slowness is a needed thing. It ensures that the money be spent on things the members actually want (rather then what a few believe they want). It also ensures we only acquire what we can afford.
The boards primary fiscal responsibility at this stage is not additional tool acquisitions, but ensuring that he space is on a solid fiscal footing. This means building up an adequate reserver (we can debate just how much that is) AND preparing for known future expenses such as future moves.
1 Like
I have always viewed the monthly committee allocations as “we need this minimum amount of money to function and create a usable area”. For expenses like replacing broken tools, restocking consumables(cleaning supplies, chemicals, air filters, disposable gloves, blades, etc), small purchases that would not be worth bothering the board with (like I bought some bike specific tools for auto for ~$70, making a board agenda item for that would be excessive) .
Saying committees shouldn’t need any allocations for non trivial purchases because they get a small monthly allocation is stretching at least what I assumed the monthly allocations were for. Maybe I should have requested a larger monthly allocation for auto…
1 Like
It seems funny to me to say that committees sponsor classes, when, in reality, it’s actually the teachers sponsoring the committees. As someone who has taught a lot of classes and claimed a lot of sponsoring committees for those classes, I’m aware of how arbitrary sponsorship is for so many classes. I’m hoping that Science Committee really, truly sponsors classes in a meaningful way.
1 Like
Just total up those numbers by committee and you will some starteling numbers for some committees.
I can tell you the electronics committee total is a whopping $2,200. To date we have only spent about half. Guess we are too conservative. Hard to feel you are getting a fair share when other committees get $6,000-$7,000 in one go.
However I was holding onto some of our funds in case my begging manufacturer’s did not work out. Hakko did not come through so we will have to buy our own soldering irons.