I’ll answer first in my asshole voice.
Search using the “magnifying glass” icon, near your avatar pic.
To be less of an ass, yes. And how!
To expound: if you search for “paint booth”, you can read all about our past discussions, and how avidly some folks want a paint booth, and how avidly others want to use the space for something else.
Thanks, I’m not quite sure how to effectively use Talk features yet, so any help is greatly appreciated no matter how it’s delivered LoL!
I’m actually surprised there isn’t a dust free booth with the all the fabrication going on. Finishing a project usually ends with paint, stain, clear.
It comes down to space. Paint booths largely are empty rooms, or rooms with drying things in them, which can’t be used for large periods of time. As opposed to tables, where virtually any project can live.
Anyway…
We don’t really “officially” paint anything here. But kind of like veh. storage, it happens. Be cool. Be mindful of yourself, what you’re doing, and how it affects others (overspray, fumes, etc.). Don’t paint other people’s stuff (cars, projects, THE LANDLORD’S PROPERTY, etc.)
Generally, piece of cardboard to form a booth, do it in the parking lot. Yeah, it’s kind of like being at home, but if the 'Space is your workshop, this is where your stuff is, and there are a LOT more neighbours to think of…
EDIT: you’re not the last person to bring this up. It WILL come up again, as virtually everyone WANTS a paint booth. But so far, no dice. Nothing wrong with putting your opinion out there. Once the chorus is loud enough, it’ll happen. It’s just a matter of displacing some other important occupant. 
An 8’ or 10’ small booth wouldn’t take up much room. For a booth that size, a filter exhaust system wouldn’t need to be very big either.
Now I dont know the space that well yet, but I see quite a few areas that look like storage that has a lot of dust on things, that doesn’t seem to get much use.
I would think a dust free booth, would be used all the time.
A paint booth of any size would require us to comply with the considerable regulations applied in that field. Which require accurate and complete records. Two words that don’t go with volunteer
Feel free to fire them off, but don’t be hurt or discouraged if something is already in the works for each space you name. Also, expect (nearly) every other committee to object on the grounds that THEY could better use the space.
A good, recent example, and I’m guessing your first to come to mind, will be the “storage portion” of the “interactive classroom”. That is already spoken for by Creative Arts, and it was a bit of a scuffle for them at that. Here is some of that:
and here is the topic at the last BOD. https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20161021#Reclaim_Storage_Room_.28Brooks_Scharff.29
As you can see, that once WAS a paint booth, and no longer is for a variety of reasons, least of which was it wasn’t really up to the task.
Can’t be that big of a deal, there are tons of businesses with painting facilities. I wonder what other makerspaces around the country do?
I’ll read through the other threads to get a feel for the pro vs con argument at the space.
But I’ve discovered that there are usually easy solutions that can be created for most of the cons.
They likely operate in a grey area, totally non compliant with commercial HSE requirements.
They are also employers of people who can maintain the records, they don’t need to worry about employees sneaking in material that isn’t recorded for personal projects. Etc…
Well, I have read through many of the threads on the issue of a paint booth, etc. There seems to be a recurring theme, that proper painting and finishing areas or facilities is an ongoing problem. No real solution for such a diverse space. The folks who are against it, for all good reasons, have brought up issues that seem like with diligence and a plan can be handled appropriately with an organization like DMS. It definitely would require careful planning and thoughtful organization to create a solution. Space does seem to be at a premium and it definitiey should be used in an efficient manner in order to utilize the space effectively and safely.
I would think many of the committees would be in favor of a booth as most can utilize a dust free finishing area.
A compliant paint booth is likely to cost ten to twenty thousand dollars for the booth itself, less the costs to duct it outside, run power, install it, etc.
The most definitive answer we got on regulation was that the most we could paint per year without being subject to intense levels of regulation was fifty gallons. Anything greater would likely be quite burdensome and beyond the capabilities of a volunteer organization such as ours.
I would estimate that we already go through far more than fifty gallons a year without a paint booth. Were we to install one it would sit idle for months a a time because we exhausted our quota in an ideal world; in reality we would far exceed fifty gallons and likely end up in trouble with various regulators.
There are cheaper solutions such as negative-pressure cabinets that exhaust through a filter, but those are decidedly not satisfactory to regulators. So we continue to lack finishing capabilities.
Expanding on Erik’s comments: The 50 gallons includes “all volatiles” meaning thinner and cleaners used, You hit that threshold very fast, then a LOT of EPA rules kick in significantly increasing the cost.
There is also the issue of our lease, which is one reason we pay just under $400/mo fore the parts washer lease. They are licensed to handle and dispose of all the chemicals.
Lease:
1.2 Tenant shall not, and shall not direct, suffer or permit any of its agents, contractors, employees, licensees or invitees (collectively, the “Tenant Entities”) to at any time handle, use, manufacture, store or dispose of in or about the Premises or the Building any (collectively “Hazardous Materials”) flammables, explosives, radioactive materials, hazardous wastes or materials, toxic wastes or materials, or other similar substances, petroleum products or derivatives or any substance subject to regulation by or under any federal, state and local laws and ordinances relating to the protection of the environment or the keeping, use or disposition of environmentally hazardous materials, substances, or wastes, presently in effect or hereafter adopted, all amendments to any of them, and all rules and regulations issued pursuant to any of such laws or ordinances (collectively “Environmental Laws”), nor shall Tenant suffer or permit any Hazardous Materials to be used in any manner not fully in compliance with all
Environmental Laws, in the Premises or the Building and appurtenant land or allow the environment to become contaminated with any Hazardous Materials. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Tenant may handle, store, use or dispose of products containing small quantities of Hazardous Materials (such as aerosol cans containing insecticides, toner for copiers, paints, paint remover and the like) to the extent customary and necessary for the use of the Premises for general office purposes; provided that Tenant shall always handle, store, use, and dispose of any such Hazardous Materials in a safe and lawful manner and never allow such Hazardous Materials to contaminate the Premises, Building and appurtenant land or the environment. Tenant shall protect, defend, indemnify and hold each and all of the Landlord Entities (as defined in Article 30) harmless from and against any and all loss, claims, liability or costs (including court costs and attorney’s fees) incurred by reason of any actual or asserted failure of Tenant to fully comply with all applicable Environmental Laws, or the presence, handling, use or disposition in or from the Premises of any Hazardous Materials by Tenant or any Tenant Entity (even though permissible under all applicable Environmental Laws or the provisions of this Lease), or by reason of any actual or asserted failure of Tenant to keep, observe, or perform any provision of this Section 1.2.
We can use minor amounts as we have been (yellow cabinet), but an actual spray booth would take it us out of this. Spray painting outside is would be covered under the the Premises or the Building and appurtenant land listed above. Of all the things we can do, IMO, a paint booth carries the most exposure for liability of the Space.
I hate taking things home to spray paint them. That’s why in CA we use water based paints etc. with the airbrushes - no volatiles involved so fire, explosion, hazardous waste issue is almost non-existent. Plus quantities on a yearly basis is probably a gallon or two at most of water based paint.
I’m curious what size would 20k get you?
I’m wondering what that burden actually would be and how others handle it that use booths? It can’t be to difficult, many businesss paint. Still not sure why it would be too burdensome for a volunteer organization. I may have to look into this to see what painters do, etc. But from an ignorant position I am in, seems like it should be solvable in a effective manner. I’ll dig into this and ask around.
Well how is the over 50 gallons used now regulated and handled currently? I would think a booth would put the space in a better position? Not sure I understand how a booth would put the space in a worse position regulatorily speaking? Maybe there is verbiage in the regulations that delineate these things? Like I said, I’ll have to research this deeper.
How would using a spray booth that is designed to handle all airborne particulates put the Space into greater exposure to liability?
It seems like it would reduce liability. Perhaps increase regulatory PIA, but definitely it should reduce liability I would thInk.
I just need to ask around and see what others do. Definitely, look into the regulations, etc.
When we installed a paint booth at the Job Shop I was QA Manager at - it was the biggest pain in the we had. The Fire Marshall is concerned, State and Federal EPA type laws, disposal is an issue, have to use certified disposal companies. Waste storage, etc.
You are in a area that makes you strictly liable for any failure in compliance. Again, based on our lease, a Spray Booth would be well beyond “office use”.
Paint booth is a much desired, wanted, and coveted item. But it is expensive and loaded with liability issues. We are exempt from many laws as a 501c3 … but EPA type laws is not included.
We went through this about a year ago.
The paint booth itself is ~$5300; shipping is likely not included (shipping weight 2520 pounds). Historically, ducting has cost around $10,000 once you include the cost of approved engineering drawings. We might be able to get the electrical done for a few thousand. And if we’re really lucky we can install it ourselves for zero dollars.
Lacking employees that can be paid to ensure compliance and threatened with discipline for failure to comply, we have little leverage over members and volunteers. As such, overly rigid processes are difficult to enforce and tend to slip.
I do not recall the specifics, but anything over 50 gallons put us into a commercial/industrial categorization. Even at 50 gallons the impetus would be on the organization to prove we were below the threshold through receipts, logs, and rules that our members would likely not tolerate (i.e. all paint must be purchased through DMS).
Yah but a properly installed paint booth, should not be against the lease. It handles all the particulates that are required to be contained. As things stand now, correct me if I am wrong, but all painting now is just outgassed to the environment and the amount used is apparently beyond the amount allowed? Is that correct?
I would think a paint booth would put the space in a better situation?
If you want to go through the footwork with the landlord, city, sate, and EPA to prove that such a thing is truly feasible within terms of our lease, the law, and realities of our organization, feel free.
Yes it would be a better situation.
Even to vent the thing we’d have to get landlord approval as that would be another hole through the the structure - since the lease already states:
[s]mall quantities of Hazardous Materials (such as aerosol cans containing insecticides, toner for copiers, paints, paint remover and the like) to the extent customary and necessary for the use of the Premises for general office purposes;
I doubt permission would be granted.