Battlebots 2018

Off Topic
#1

Continuing the discussion from Mini Drones as Weapons? Realistic or BS?:

I’ve been enjoying the hell out of this season. They’ve really put a lot of work into making it not only more entertaining for the watchers, but also for the participants.

As noted, the drones are largely for show, but kind of fun. Strategically, I have no idea why a team chooses to use one (ditto on flame throwers, though the Sharkoprian vs. Warhead saw the flamethrower actually make a difference – this was, in my opinion, very much a “demonstration” battle, because Sharkoprian is freakin’ awesome! but not very competitive and Warhead could, probably, have taken it out in a few seconds with the spinner, but chose the T-Rex head with flames instead.)
Anyway…
Here are links to the rules, if you need some reading material.
https://battlebots.com/rules/

And the “recent” battle with the entanglement device was Complete Control vs. Ghost Raptor.

Enough pissing and moaning about how this was an “illegal or at least distasteful maneuver” led to a rematch


It’s pretty meh.

I’d most like to see Battlebots reward heavily for actual robotic actions. For example, the only “automated” anything I know of on the floor is Chomp (allegedly) using an automated weapons targeting system, and automatic self-right. I’d probably give them an extra 100lbs just for that. The more automated, the more reward (of some sort, weight being one that’s obvious).

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#2

Arrrggghhh! Can’t watch the second attached video.

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#3

Battlebots is a TV show first, a form of motorsport second, and a tournament to name the best bot third. As such, whatever makes for the best TV is what they’ll do. Entanglement doesn’t make for good entertainment. Flamethrowers do. And if you don’t land a solid knockout, and the fight goes to the judges, crowd favor can win or lose you the fight. A drone raining fire from above while your bot makes a show, can really get the crowd going, even if it is ineffective at combat and cuts into your main bot’s weight allowance.

Chomp does use a bunch of really sophisticated automation. And you can see all the good it does. (spoiler alert: not as much as its engineering cost would have you believe) Maybe there are cleverer ways to implement automation like that, but Battlebots isn’t in the habit of making allowances in the rules, and it’s never proven itself effective. (and 100lbs in a 250lb robot class is absurd, get out of it)

Edit: my cousin is the driver for SubZero, and combat robotics has been a family affair for the last 20 years

#4

VPN ?
Works fine for me…
:man_shrugging:

I don’t know what “get out of it” means, but yeah, that’s my point. I would like for the viewership to demand the assigning of absurd advantages to folks doing things which I think “robots” should do: a key element in “robot behaviour” is that they do what they do because of programming, not because someone with a remote control did something.
I applaud Chomp for trying to, as I see it, “stick to the program”.

Cool!

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#5

I have only watched that one night and I am not liking the flame throwing much. Reminds me too much of Robot Wars. I hope they never go with “house bots.”

Oh, and I can do without the bad poetry. Instead, bring back, “The box is locked; the lights are on; it’s robot fighting time!”

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#6

The state of the art in robotic combat is not created for the TV show, but generally in other non-televised arenas. Every bot you see on the show is a refined version of a bot that proved itself capable off the air. Chomp has been around for years, as have all of the robots that do a lot of winning. (Except Huge; that thing just popped up in 2016 out of nowhere and flipped the meta on its head) There’s no reason for Battlebots to create those advantages to drive development, because by the time the robots make it to Battlebots, their design is set in stone, based on what worked in previous experience.

But it’s important to remember: these aren’t classical robots, and the show isn’t called Robot Wars. They’re battlebots. The deal isn’t to have autonomous whatevers running around and PID’ing their way to victory, it’s really more about mechanical engineering and driving skill. This is really a form of motorsport, and just like in motorsport, the fights are won or lost in the pits, just as much as they’re won by the drivers. Rather than giving advantages to people with a gimmick (because that’s what autonomous features are), I’d like to see Battlebots give more airtime to what goes on in the pits, so people really get a sense for how much is actually going on for these fights to happen. I think that’d be entertaining while also showcasing the engineering and technical work at play, even if it doesn’t fit the definition of a classical robot.

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#7

When it rains, it pours.

Robot Wars returns on Science Channel, Wednesday, August 8.

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#8

Yeah. Unfortunately, in my opinion, these veins were run early in the televised “robot combat” world. We started out with science competitions where people built robots that did line following, maze running, etc. Then they branched out to sumo. Then they moved into the heavyweight version of this, culminating in the original “robot wars”/“battlebots” series of televised events with the likes of Biohazard and Roadblock, which by that point had (almost) completely abandoned the whole concept of “robot”, in my estimation, because they’re just RC vehicles. The thing is, they drew crowds and $$$, so you get what we have now. Which I’m not complaining about, but wish for a re-insertion of some of the “robot”. I know it’s not going to happen, but I wish for it anyway.

What I need to do, if I want my fix, is learn to follow the OTHER competitions. It’s not like battlebots on Discovery is the only show in town…

PS I wish Battlebots did a better job publicizing the OTHER awards they give:
8.9 Prize Structure
There are prizes for all BattleBots that compete in combat at the Tournament. In addition, there will be
trophies awarded to Teams based on their BattleBot’s design and operation.
8.9.1 Tournament Prizes
The Tournament shall award cash prizes as follows:
Win $ Lose $
Exhibition Matches TBD TBD
Fight Card Matches TBD TBD
Sweet 16 TBD TBD
Quarter Finals TBD TBD
Semi-Finals TBD TBD
Finals TBD TBD
BattleBots 2018 Tournament Rules
Rev. 1.01 36 of 37 Copyright© 2018
BattleBots Inc.
In addition, the Tournament Championship winning Team will receive the Giant Nut Trophy.
Producer, BattleBots Inc. and Network reserve the right to make changes to the total prize pool amount
and/or the prize pool allocation prior to the commencement of the Tournament.
8.9.2 Design Awards
A Giant Bolt Trophy will be awarded to certain artistic, innovative or otherwise exceptional BattleBots
regardless of their performance in the Tournament.
The awards are designated and determined as follows:
Most Destructive Robot
The Judges as a group will decide this Award winner.
Best Designer
The winner for this award will be decided by a poll of all of the Entrant and Backup Teams. The Robot
with the most votes wins. In case of a tie, BattleBots will make the tie-breaking vote.
Founder’s Award
This award will be decided by BattleBots Inc. Officials.
No Robot will be eligible for more than one Design Award.

#9

Forgot to add: I’d like to see more pit time, too. This seems like a good thing to put in a “behind the scenes” webisode kind of thing.
At least this year, we have less pre-game commentary and less “introduction to the builder”. We typically are getting short commentary for background (which I FF through when possible or zone out for when not, but newbies probably enjoy) and then Faruk does his thing (which I would have cut, along with whats-her-face from the previous seasons) and then they go for broke. So, we sorta won some of that battle…

#10

To be fair, Battlebots (and this form of combat robotics at all scales) has always been “just RC vehicles.” Going back the last 20 years or so, the only things that have really changed are the batteries and motors. LiPo finally got good enough to put out the power these things chew up (formerly lead-acid powered) and brushless is cheaper and stronger all the time, though you’ll still find plenty of brushed motors, thanks to their cheap cost and greater thermal mass.

FIRST is still around, and plenty of classical robotics competitions are still doing their thing, but that’s not what battlebots has ever been about. It’s a remote controlled 250lb demolition derby. This has always been a motorsport, not a robotics demonstration. (Just like you’d never win anything at FIRST if you came with a heavily armored RC car with really bad gyroscopic issues)

Now, there are a few things I think Battlebots could do to incentivize shaking up the meta. Right now, vertical spinners and drums are the majority of robots, with horizontal spinners taking up almost all the rest of the field. It’s hard to argue against 70lbs of steel spinning at 10,000RPM, sending your robot into the wall/ceiling. Hammers are ineffective, flippers are unreliable, crushers and saws take longer to work than you’re allowed to pin the other bot. The only bot to successfully break up the meta has been Huge, which trades a short, squat design built out of metal, for 40-inch UHMW polyethylene wheels that flop back into shape when they get hit. It still uses a vertical disc. But it’s a pretty creative design that doesn’t fall victim to the majority of bots, which have been designed to beat all of the other squat tanks in specific ways.

Now imagine a hexapod legged bot built with the 5-figure budget of a typical battlebot, carrying some kind of neat weapon. You probably couldn’t do it effectively within the 250lb weight limit, but some clever engineering and a weight allowance could get you there under the old superheavyweight limit. Who knows if it’d work, but it’d be interesting to see. Giving allowances for things that visibly challenge the fidget spinner on steroids status quo is where I think they could stand to make rule changes- I’m just not convinced that autonomy is one of those things.

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#11

Been enjoying Huge’s showings, but they’ve yet to take on a heavy hitting spinner, as I recall, so we’ll see how the flexy wheels work once that happens (if they’ve been around in other comps since '16, you may know, but casual BB watchers like me have never seen Huge before this competition.).

#12

Here’s an older, smaller version of Huge at last year’s Motorama, fighting a vertical drum type weapon, similar to Minotaur:

Those are featherweights- 30lb bots. They scale to heavyweights in a fairly linear fashion.

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#13

Am I the only one, when seeing Huge in action, to think cannon without the cannon?

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#14

Yep. Me too.:blankspace:

#15

Yea, I’m waiting for a big fireball and lots of blackpowder smoke. So disappointed.

1 Like
#16

Yep, It was VPN. Thanks!

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